50 Lux or 50 Nokton f1

[wdshuck]

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Currently have a 50 Summicron v5 which I love. I’m thinking of getting something faster to pair with it. I’d used it both on my M10 and SL2S.

I’ve always been impressed with the images from the 50 Summilux ASPH. However I’m worried it might be more an evolution vs my summicron.

The Nokton 50 f1 seems to get great reviews and might offer something different? Very interested in thoughts from others who have considered 50 choices. Main requirements would be something sharp in the center (mostly would be used for portraits) and prefer limited focus shift (has the ZM 50 1.5 and liked the image quality but not focus shift).

Edited December 24, 2022 by wdshuck

[jaeger]

50 lux is one of the best in M lenses.  

[wdshuck]

48 minutes ago, Artin said:

What I did like a lot and will probably get another copy soon was the Voightlander 50mm Nokton 1.2 V||| 

it has an MFD of .5m very nice draw beautiful Bokhe and very sharp at F2. And half the price of the F1 

Wow didn’t realize MFD was 0.5m, that is a bonus, especially using on the SL2S

[RexGig0]

The Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, when used at f/1.4, can do things, optically and artistically, that a Summicron simply cannot do, so, in my opinion, “evolution” does not apply. I started Leica M shooting with a pre-owned, well-preserved Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, which I found locally. I later added a Summicron-M 50mm, Version IV, in order to have a more-compact 50mm lens, for the times that compactness matters more than aperture, or that special wide-open Summilux look.

The 1979 Summicron-M optical formula, a Walter Mandler design, has its own optical qualities. Leica calls this the Version IV. Notably, Leica does not use the term “Version V” for any version of the Summicron. That which users and collectors call the “Version V” has the same 1979 optical formula as the Version IV. The Summicron-M 50mm IV/V is not a lesser lens than the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. It is simply a different lens, a wonderful lens in its own right.

Notably, there is an aperture range, in which the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH lens can produce unattractive bokeh “stars” rather than nicely rounded bokeh “balls.” This is a function of the shape of the aperture blades. So, between f/2 and f/5.6, be aware of using a Summilux-M 50mm ASPH in a way that causes this effect to show. This can be a reason to have a second, different 50mm M-mount lens available, to complement one’s Summilux.

I have never personally seen, handled, or shot with an f/1 Noctilux, but, did plenty of “homework,” looking closely at images posted by others on-line, while deciding whether to acquire an f/1 or f/0.95 Noctilux, when my budget* would have allowed me to exercise that option, I decided against it. My Summilux was truly providing the “look” that I wanted, with subjects within the depth of focus, and, the blurred, out-of-focus areas of the images. To be clear, I have no argument with anyone who prefers how a Noctilux “sees” subjects and backgrounds, as such things are artistic choices.

The number of times that f/1.4 would not be “fast enough,” due to low light conditions, did not seem to be sufficiently important to merit spending the considerable money on any Noctilux, f/0.95 or f/1, for that reason, alone. After careful consideration of comparison images that I found on-line, including this forum, the Fred Miranda forum, and on the Generic Photographer channel, and perhaps other channels, on the you-tube, I did allow myself the luxury of acquiring a new Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 VM ASPH, for the niche of using 50mm in extremely low light. 

I am not any kind of expert. 🙂

*Not buying a Noctilux allowed me to, instead, add well-preserved, pre-owned APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH and Elmar-M 24mm ASPH lenses, and then add the new Nokton 50mm f/1.0 ASPH. I am still deciding how much I like the 75mm APO, but the Elmar-M 24mm ASPH is a true gem, an absolutely wonderful unintended consequence of deciding against a Noctilux.

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by RexGig0

[wdshuck]

7 hours ago, RexGig0 said:

The Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, when used at f/1.4, can do things, optically and artistically, that a Summicron simply cannot do, so, in my opinion, “evolution” does not apply. I started Leica M shooting with a pre-owned, well-preserved Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, which I found locally. I later added a Summicron-M 50mm, Version IV, in order to have a more-compact 50mm lens, for the times that compactness matters more than aperture, or that special wide-open Summilux look.

The 1979 Summicron-M optical formula, a Walter Mandler design, has its own optical qualities. Leica calls this the Version IV. Notably, Leica does not use the term “Version V” for any version of the Summicron. That which users and collectors call the “Version V” has the same 1979 optical formula as the Version IV. The Summicron-M 50mm IV/V is not a lesser lens than the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. It is simply a different lens, a wonderful lens in its own right.

Notably, there is an aperture range, in which the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH lens can produce unattractive bokeh “stars” rather than nicely rounded bokeh “balls.” This is a function of the shape of the aperture blades. So, between f/2 and f/5.6, be aware of using a Summilux-M 50mm ASPH in a way that causes this effect to show. This can be a reason to have a second, different 50mm M-mount lens available, to complement one’s Summilux.

I have never personally seen, handled, or shot with an f/1 Noctilux, but, did plenty of “homework,” looking closely at images posted by others on-line, while deciding whether to acquire an f/1 or f/0.95 Noctilux, when my budget* would have allowed me to exercise that option, I decided against it. My Summilux was truly providing the “look” that I wanted, with subjects within the depth of focus, and, the blurred, out-of-focus areas of the images. To be clear, I have no argument with anyone who prefers how a Noctilux “sees” subjects and backgrounds, as such things are artistic choices.

The number of times that f/1.4 would not be “fast enough,” due to low light conditions, did not seem to be sufficiently important to merit spending the considerable money on any Noctilux, f/0.95 or f/1, for that reason, alone. After careful consideration of comparison images that I found on-line, including this forum, the Fred Miranda forum, and on the Generic Photographer channel, and perhaps other channels, on the you-tube, I did allow myself the luxury of acquiring a new Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.0 VM ASPH, for the niche of using 50mm in extremely low light. 

I am not any kind of expert. 🙂

*Not buying a Noctilux allowed me to, instead, add well-preserved, pre-owned APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH and Elmar-M 24mm ASPH lenses, and then add the new Nokton 50mm f/1.0 ASPH. I am still deciding how much I like the 75mm APO, but the Elmar-M 24mm ASPH is a true gem, an absolutely wonderful unintended consequence of deciding against a Noctilux.

 

Thank you, very helpful to hear your journey - particularly how the Summilux provides a different rendering than the Summicron.
 

I’m not necessarily looking for more light gathering, just a different look. I really enjoy the Generic Photographer and his description of it as similar rendering to the ZM 35 1.4 was one of my attractions - I very much like that lens, but am more of a 50 shooter and found it a bit long. 

[wdshuck]

29 minutes ago, Artin said:

This is the Nokton F1 wide open pretty darn incredible lens if you ask me 

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The 3D pop on this is pretty incredible - almost like she is cut out

[robb]

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I’ve owned 3 versions of the m 50 1.4 asph.  Focusing ring is a bit dainty and with the tab is a bit mixed bag.  I’m also not a fan of the built in hood design.  But hard to argue with its image quality which is very nice.  I’d look for an old school (special) version with the non tab knurled focusing ring and separate hood.
I’m in love with the 50 nokton more - especially for portraits.  Feels great to focus on my SL2 bodies.  The images are very sharp with great background.  

if you plan to shoot more at longer distances, the lux might be a better pick but for portraits at full length or waist up, it’s nokton.

Robb

[LarsHP]

On 12/24/2022 at 4:39 PM, wdshuck said:

Wow didn’t realize MFD was 0.5m, that is a bonus, especially using on the SL2S

The Nokton 50mm f/1.2 in M mount has a 70cm MFD. I have that lens myself and just double-checked the official Voigtländer site where 0.7m is listed as MFD.

https://www.voigtlaender.de/lenses/vm/50-mm-112-nokton/?lang=en

I think Artin is mixing up the 50mm with the 35mm version, which in fact has 50cm MFD, or he's mixing it up with the E mount version, which has a MFD of only 45cm.

[Panda2]

Planar 50 ZM, one rarely needs more  but if one needs more, then apo or rigid.

[LarsHP]

1 hour ago, Artin said:

I think if I am not mistaken it went far beyond the marked .7 mark .. I may be wrong it was a while ago since I had one 

My sample only goes to about 69cm, so I think you are mixing it up with another lens.

However, I had the Nokton 35mm f/1.2 v2 and that lens (as well as version 1 and 3) goes to 50cm, which may be the lens you are thinking about.

[garysamson]

Another lens you might want to consider is the TTArtisans 50mm f0.95. This example was shot at f1.1 on a Leica SL2s.

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Edited December 26, 2022 by garysamson

[wdshuck]

On 12/25/2022 at 3:11 AM, robb said:

I’ve owned 3 versions of the m 50 1.4 asph.  Focusing ring is a bit dainty and with the tab is a bit mixed bag.  I’m also not a fan of the built in hood design.  But hard to argue with its image quality which is very nice.  I’d look for an old school (special) version with the non tab knurled focusing ring and separate hood.
I’m in love with the 50 nokton more - especially for portraits.  Feels great to focus on my SL2 bodies.  The images are very sharp with great background.  

if you plan to shoot more at longer distances, the lux might be a better pick but for portraits at full length or waist up, it’s nokton.

Robb

Thank you, Robb! Your pictures with the Nokton were one of the reasons I started considering the lens.

[Romeomcdallan]

On 12/24/2022 at 10:50 AM, Artin said:

What I did like a lot and will probably get another copy soon was the Voightlander 50mm Nokton 1.2 V||| 

it has an MFD of .5m very nice draw beautiful Bokhe and very sharp at F2. And half the price of the F1 

Had this lens and sold it to get the lux. Lux is generally a better lens and has a nicer bokeh and it’s sharper. Nokton does not close focus, it’s 0.7 m as the lux. The downside of the lux are the ninja stars which are very apparent when stopped down 

[wdshuck]

Thank you all for the comments! CameraQuest had a great deal on mint VM 50 f1 which I just ordered. Will let the thread know how I find it.

[shanefking]

That 50 Asph … Its really something special.

 

Looking forward to your review 

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[LarsHP]

14 hours ago, wdshuck said:

Thank you all for the comments! CameraQuest had a great deal on mint VM 50 f1 which I just ordered. Will let the thread know how I find it.

Good choice, particularly considering that you already have the Summicron.

[wdshuck]

Really enjoying the VM 50 f1 so far. The look is definitely different from my Summicron.

It is surprisingly easy to focus on the SL2S. I haven’t tried it much on the M10 and doubt I will use it as much there - the size is a bit much.

Here is a shot a took today of my son.

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