Jump to content

Possible for one set of framelines to be incorrect?


Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hey all, I recently picked up my first 90mm lens, the APO Summicron 90. All works as expected on my M11. However, I took it out shooting with my M2 today, and I seem to be getting quite a bit more to the left in the frame than I saw in the framelines. This is odd to me because the M2 framelines for my 35mm and 50mm lenses are right on the money. It's a new lens, and the framelines are rather small, so it's possible this was simply user error. I need to run another roll of film through the camera with this lens and test more carefully. But before I do that, is it even possible for only one set of framelines in the camera to be off, and the other two to be perfect?

Link to post
Share on other sites

With time you will not be bothered by framing accuracy in M using.

In my M10 manual, with the magnification 0.73 almost the same as M2's 0.72,

I read (page 110 French Edition) this "error" with 28mm, 7.3% to very large (for precision instrument) 18% with135mm.

90mm lens not specified, but I think it's between the two figures, so 10-15%.

 

Or your M2 needs CLA if the 90 framelines don't move with focussing distance.

Link to post
Share on other sites

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Jeremy Bunting:

However, I took it out shooting with my M2 today, and I seem to be getting quite a bit more to the left in the frame than I saw in the framelines.

Please don't take it the wrong way, when I think you might have made the same mistake as I did when I had the first Leica:

I first looked for the exact framing and focussed afterwards - not regarding the fact that the frame moves when you focus. So my pictures were constantly off to the left or right. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Jeremy Bunting said:

This is odd to me because the M2 framelines for my 35mm and 50mm lenses are right on the money. 

I'm inclined to say that if they are "right on the money" then they are probably wrong. My M2 (or any of my Leica's) cannot be praised for being precise when it comes to framing, although I don't experience that they are leaning more to one side over the other. In that case I'd suspect @UliWers suggestion is more likely.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Jeremy,

Welcome to the Forum.

It is more important to frame the image AFTER focusing with longer lenses because of the mathematics involved:

If you frame before focusing an image, which includes something which becomes 1 meter/1 foot outside of the frame after focusing with a 35mm lens: The something that is 1 meter/1 foot outside of what is actually captured after focusing: Is a certain proportion of degrees, of the angle of coverage, of that specific focal length: Outside of the image actually captured.

If you do the same thing with a lens of a longer focal length: The proportionate relationship of the 2 lenses determines the proportional relationship of the 2 different distances.

Example, all in ROUNDED or/&  APPROXIMATE numbers:

If an image that is framed before focusing is 1 meter/1 foot outside of the captured image that it would be a part of: If it was framed after focusing: And we are using a 35mm lens: That puts the image a certain number of degrees outside of the frame. To simplify here, we can call the 1/meter/1 foot distance 10% of the degrees covered by a 35mm lens.

A longer lens, like a 90mm lens, captures a smaller angle of view. And, that means that: The 1 meter/1 foot distance outside of the image captured is a greater proportional degree of the total image captured. The proportion of degrees of the image covered in this example is 64/27ths of 10%. 

Which is: Dividing the approximate angle of coverage of a 35mm lens by the approximate angle of coverage of a 90mm lens.

Which, is around 24% of the entire image. Instead of 10% of the image when using the wider angle lens.

So a framing error is magnified with longer lenses.

Which means that the object outside of the captured image is 24% of the total image captured, instead of 10% of the total image captured.

Which makes it more noticeable.

Which is why "camera shake" is also more noticeable. It is also magnified.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I doubt that your framelines are off, but many things can contribute to poor composition with longer lenses on an M camera. @Michael Geschlecht gave a good account above of the problems of framing error, but these can largely be overcome by getting used to the lens and knowing where to compensate, like should you frame for inside or outside of the framelines, how much should you allow for cropping the image down to the one you see in your minds eye, etc. Another good point is made about composing the image after you've focused it, and an addition to that would be to use an extra couple of frames to 'bracket' your composition, something a professional photographer would try when using longer lenses by varying your framing enough to cover all the vagaries of the M viewfinder. You can't chimp the composition like you can with your M11 so just give a little more around the edges and crop later.

For similar reasons the 35 and 50 framelines of your M2 won't actually be 'right on the money', but the divergence is so small you aren't noticing it in the picture, but do the dreaded 'wall test' and you'll soon see from the negative that what you think you've framed isn't exact at all.

Edited by 250swb
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Everybody,

And, don't forget that as a person focuses closer: The rangefinder & frames MOVE from  top left to bottom right within the entire image in the viewfinder. While the entire image in the viewfinder, itself, remains stationary. And, so, the frames, themselves, are showing different areas of coverage.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...