Pentax is working on new film cameras

[Simone_DF]

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Pentax has officially announced they are working on a compact film camera and a SLR film camera, see the official statement and the two teasers below

https://news.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/rim_info2/2022/20221220_037861.html

 

[tom.w.bn]

Great news, but if they start now with collecting requirements and wishes from the market, how many years does it take for the final product to reach the market? The announcement sounds a bit like a kickstarter campaign.

There will be some people who wish for an entry level priced film camera and I bet they will be disappointed.

Is it time to buy some Pentax lenses before prices go up even more?

 

[espelt]

Nice. Pentax was my first real camera. Still works fine. If it stays with the PK connection - there are a lot of interesting lenses.....

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[Anbaric]

Good for them! I hope it takes off, though according to the CEO it doesn't seem like a done deal quite yet; hopefully he's just being cautious:

https://news.ricoh-imaging.co.jp/rim_info2/2022/20221220_037861.html

'I want to stress that this announcement does not mean we will release new film cameras. Instead, it's an ongoing project based on the assumption that, as long as photographers remain obsessed with the ambiance of light and environment, there will also be some who will want to use film cameras as their tool of choice in capturing unique images. But we also know how difficult it will be to restart the production of film cameras long after production was terminated. In fact, we're only at the starting line right now.'

But TKO'e enthusiasm in the video really comes across, and he uses a word we've never heard from Leica about the reissued M6, 'affordable'...

Interesting that he mentions compact cameras and potentially two SLRs, with the mechanical one coming last. I wonder if before that they'll attempt something that borrows a lot from their current line of dSLRs, a modern AF model that can use the current line of lenses? Although that would be a more complex camera, it might be easier to develop since a lot of the work has already been done and the technology is current. Late Nikon AF SLRs were apparently developed in this way, with technology from the D1 project that was their primary focus finding its way into the F100 released the same year, and the F6 borrowing a lot from its dSLRs cousins.

For the mechanical SLR, something they could call a 'K1000' would be an obvious choice because of the name recognition, and it has already been partly redesigned once for production in China back in the 90s (with rather more plastic than the earlier variants).

I'd say it's a racing certainty they'd stay with the K mount for any SLR, which they still use in an AF variant today.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Anbaric

[tom.w.bn]

Now had time to watch the videos and they are more interesting than the statement alone. The guy is very open about the journey character of this project and that they are not 10% sure if they will bring out a real camera at the end. In IT terms we would probably call it an agile project...  And he pronounced multiple times that they aim at younger people with less budget at first.

Probably the first compact camera will be a Ricoh brand and then SLRs with the Pentax brand.

 

[Anbaric]

9 minutes ago, tom.w.bn said:

Probably the first compact camera will be a Ricoh brand and then SLRs with the Pentax brand.

That would make sense - Pentax had some nice compacts, but I don't recall anything with quite the cachet of the Ricoh GR1 series. Though I suppose they might decide they want to keep all their film camera efforts under one brand, which would have to be Pentax.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Anbaric

[Doc Henry]

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[pierovitch]

End of year inventory found crate of parts!

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[250swb]

I'm not sure what Pentax would gain other than kudos. There are enough cameras around secondhand to fill the market if people really wanted a Pentax, and if it should fail then buy another, a K1000 with a lens is only £150, a Spotmatic even less. This isn't Leica re-releasing the M6 where people are nervous about reliability and inflated cost of the original cameras and would rather buy a new one for reliability (no, don't laugh) and which makes a viable market. Pentax like Nikon are made to last and are relatively cheap (but buy now while you can).

[tom.w.bn]

vor 21 Stunden schrieb 250swb:

I'm not sure what Pentax would gain other than kudos. There are enough cameras around secondhand to fill the market if people really wanted a Pentax, and if it should fail then buy another, a K1000 with a lens is only £150, a Spotmatic even less. This isn't Leica re-releasing the M6 where people are nervous about reliability and inflated cost of the original cameras and would rather buy a new one for reliability (no, don't laugh) and which makes a viable market. Pentax like Nikon are made to last and are relatively cheap (but buy now while you can).

I disagree. In the meetings of our local film group the state of old equipment, repair options and the fear of gear failure during a trip is a constant topic (no one owns a fancy film Leica there). I'd be happy to have a new one (or fairly new one) just for the peace of mind. Replacement can take a lot of time. Not everyone is willing to accept the risk of ordering from a random person from a random country on ebay. And the quality of the camera is important too. I'm curious about the discussion of this topic in our next meeting.

Just looked it up for fun. On ebay there is exactly one K1000 that meets my criteria: EU + Shop (no private person) + no rubbish condition. That must be  a lucky day. Tried to buy a Canon F1 (new+AE prism) as a replacement for a dead F1 (old). Only rocked down ones available so I gave up after two years and sold my red ring FD lenses.

 

[lmans]

For many cameras of old…. The price of refurbishing is higher than the cost of their old non-Leica camera purchased thru eBay or a local camera shop. I can understand the reliability issue of old cameras and worrying. I took one of my om1’s on an outing a few weeks ago and the camera wouldn’t advance. I should have taken my MA (new…. relatively speaking). 

So if Pentax or Ricoh or maybe Canon or Nikon would come out with a $500 film camera, it would sell…. But would they make a profit? I doubt it…. Not enough sales. It might depend on which company is first to the gate, as film cameras are not high sellers even in this ‘retro’ market ….Leica is profitable due to nature of M6 being same camera as MP, with one likely going away in future.  Other companies don’t have that factor to rely upon.
 

Historically,  Pentax isnt too quick on the draw when putting out new stuff. My guess is that Canon or Nikon might beat Pentax to the gate…thus putting out a Canon AE1 product or a Nikon comparable. Both are great options to the younger crowd while Leica continues to overcharge , but get away with it:)….(we all can relate).

For those who feel that Leica does not have quality control… have you visited Canon, Ricoh, Nikon etc forums? Sure, one would expect 100% quality control assurance but realistically it doesn’t occur. Shift to Canon or Nikon is my suggestion to you 

Edited December 21, 2022 by lmans

[250swb]

1 hour ago, tom.w.bn said:

 

Just looked it up for fun. On ebay there is exactly one K1000 that meets my criteria: EU + Shop (no private person) + no rubbish condition. That must be  a lucky day.

 

I suggest then you try camera shops that don't sell on eBay, or doesn't that quite fit the point you are attempting to make? Anyway why your criteria only limits it to shops is baffling given the buyers overwhelming power on eBay against private sellers. But the idea there is only ONE K1000 option available in Europe is your own fantastical contribution to the discussion.

[tom.w.bn]

vor einer Stunde schrieb 250swb:

.....is your own fantastical contribution to the discussion.

You deliver every single time. Just the answer I expected. 🤣

 

[250swb]

9 hours ago, tom.w.bn said:

You deliver every single time. Just the answer I expected. 🤣

 

Hey, you started making narrow rules about where to find a K1000 to suit your equally narrow argument. Reduce the criteria down enough and somebody is going to call you out for being absurd. In the meantime, in the real world, if anybody fancies one there are plenty of places to find a K1000 in great condition and at very reasonable prices, even on eBay.

Edited December 22, 2022 by 250swb

[Anbaric]

How long can film photography remain viable if there are no new cameras? Leica can't keep it alive on its own, because their cameras are far too expensive for most people. Right now, the situation is a bit like one of those post-apocalyptic movies where the survivors are plundering the ruins of the former civilisation for the things they can no longer make themselves. Despite Leica's efforts, there must be fewer working cameras every year, as they fail and cease to become economically repairable. Already, prices of high quality cameras in good condition are rising. One of the types of camera Ricoh/Pentax appear to be targeting, the high-end compact, is something that tends to go for silly prices today (just look at a Yashica T4, not even a luxury model in its time, or Ricoh's own GR1 series). And if something goes wrong with one of these, repair of electronics from 25+ years ago is often not an option. I think if Ricoh/Pentax can manufacture something decent for an 'affordable' price they may well, like Leica, sell all the cameras they can ship.

There is also the broader issue they identify in the video - as time goes on, it will be more and more difficult to restart production as skills are lost and supporting industries vanish. Today, dSLRs are still made that have many of the features of the film cameras they evolved from, and their lenses are still (just about) in production. Mirrorless models (unless we count the M series) have much less in common with film bodies and their lenses aren't compatible with any film system. It may be now or never.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[lmans]

The GR is still a current digital model that sells new for $850-$1000... I know that many good used GR's sell for $500 or about. If I wanted a GR I would definitely save up the additional dollars and get a new one.

If Pentax or Canon can produce a film camera for under a $1000, I think people would abandon the used market unless they are taking a class or the like and are forced to buy one. And the more I think of it, companies such as Ricoh that can produce a camera  for $1000 should be able to produce film cameras for under the same price point and make a small profit, if not more. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[williamj]

You can buy plastic fantastic new film cameras for around US$50 from B&H with names like Kodak, Ilford, Agfa and Yashica. So the market must be ready for something with better lenses and better bodies. The old dogma that the camera phone killed the digital compact camera which killed the film compact camera turns out to be old news. But I don't think the market is yet ready for new system cameras, like a Nikon 'FM4', yet.

I'm a Nikonian and just dipping my toes in the Leica lake so I'll give you one experience about getting a used Nikon SLR. In 2020 I thought I would get a Nikon F - age and relevance. Prices on teh swamp were north of US$500 for a black camera. In brackets, a standard black prism for a Nikon F can cost US$500 just by itself in swamp land. So I hung off KEH for a few months (no relationship), they didn't have any but a Nikon F has several descriptors depending on colour, prism type, etc, so there are several pages for this camera. Every day I'd refresh the pages. Eventually a black one came up in my price range (US$100 to US$150). I paid US$117 plus shipping and taxes for a camera of bargain grade. It was an FTN, so ostensibly with a meter but the meter was noted as broken and the focussing screen was not the best. Still, it was a Nikon F so I bought it. Without wishing to jinx myself it has not given me a moments trouble since then. I might post it on the not always caviar page when I have a moment.

What's my point, well if you persevere you can get an excellent camera on today's market that comes with a 180 day warranty and is not from a brick and mortar store. There is no way Nikon can make a solid system camera for even US$500 let alone sell one at that price. Nikon made more than 800,000 Fs so a lot of cameras will need to go to the tip before they need to make more. The number of cameras in the FE, FM prosumer style body shape numbers in the millions. Other manufacturer may well have even larger numbers of cameras but with a higher failure rate (don't at me ;)).

[Steve Ricoh]

I’m hoping Pentax recognise the market desire for an XPan equivalent. If by some strange chance they’ve turned in here, may I strongly recommend forgetting the electronics nonsense and make it fully manual, apart from a light meter.

How many want such a camera (with lenses, obvs) and would make the purchase?

Edited December 24, 2022 by Steve Ricoh

[TomB_tx]

My first "good" camera in college was a Pentax H1a with a lowly 55mm f2.0 lens. I loved the way it fit the way it fit the hands and silky feel of the controls. I still have a couple of 16x20 prints from that setup. - remarkable camera for the price. Even one of my Leica-shooting friends remarked how good the lens was. Yeah, I might buy a new one if they do it right.

[LocalHero1953]

The first camera I ever bought, after a succession of hand-me-downs from my father, was a chrome Pentax MX with 50mm f/1.4, which I bought in Indonesia in 1979. It lasted many years till it was stolen from a river bank in Italy while I was swimming. I bought a replacement used black one with the insurance money. I finally sold that one in 2011 to fund a M9. A reissued MX would be fun!

Edited December 25, 2022 by LocalHero1953