Brand new MP/M-A/M6 film scratches [Merged]

[Matlock]

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1 hour ago, Fotoklaus said:

Such things would have never left the factory back then.

I am not too sure about that. We tend to think that shortcomings are something new but that is not true (rose coloured spectacles). In 1991 I bought a new Omega Speedmaster watch from an authorised dealer, after two days the stopwatch reset button fell off whilst the watch was on my bedside cabinet. I took the watch back and the dealer said words to the effect "Oh no not another one, we have to keep returning the bloody things". The watch was returned in perfect order and has been no trouble since> On a slightly more serious note, I worked on the railway all my career and in 1969 we took delivery of a train, from Derby Works, and found that one engine was missing and had never been fitted, I wonder who signed that one off?

[LocalHero1953]

M6 zinc blisters anyone? Perhaps not a QC issue, but certainly a quality issue.

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[Matlock]

3 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

M6 zinc blisters anyone? Perhaps not a QC issue, but certainly a quality issue.

Not just M6 but late M4-P and M6TTL. Having said that they were very rare and I have never seen one.

[logan2z]

31 minutes ago, Matlock said:

I am not too sure about that. We tend to think that shortcomings are something new but that is not true (rose coloured spectacles). 

I haven't been in the Leica world long enough to say whether these quality issues are a relatively recent phenomena or have always been there to some degree.  But it does seem like we've been hearing more about them in recent months - film cameras scratching film, aperture blades failing, etc.  My own recent experience with an M2 overhaul at Wetzlar ended in disappointment when the camera was returned with a serious issue that required a trip back to the factory - a 3+ month wait and the camera still hasn't been returned, although I've just been told that it's on its way back to me today.   

I do think that Leica needs to up its QC game and prioritize DOA cases appropriately - making customers wait months for a brand new or just overhauled camera to be repaired is unacceptable.

[Huss]

1 hour ago, Matlock said:

 On a slightly more serious note, I worked on the railway all my career and in 1969 we took delivery of a train, from Derby Works, and found that one engine was missing and had never been fitted, I wonder who signed that one off?

Was it this guy?

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[1joel1]

7 hours ago, Erato said:

The attached screenshot indicates the Film Pressure Plate and Real Time Vacuum, RTV Suction Slit of Contax RTS III.

This could be the closest distant between the film and pressure plate in the history. It never scratches the film according to my experiences. 

And the ST, Aria, IIIf, F3, F4 or FM2, Rolleiflex, and Hasselblad are also the same.

It makes me wonder...

 

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The RTS III, I've owned a few, used a ceramic pressure plate and a burr would likely be impossible. One of my all time favorite cameras BTW.

Joel

[jakontil]

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10 hours ago, Huss said:

Was it this guy?

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dont take it too personal huss... 😂

[Matlock]

13 hours ago, Huss said:

Was it this guy?

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Looks familiar 🙂 

[Yaakov]

From my experience the easiest way to check it its just to take a little piece of film an rub it against the pressure plate if there is an issue it will show, otherwise you're good to go, I had this issue with my MP a couple of years ago, after getting a replacement backdoor (not only the plate) I tested it this way.

[Fotoklaus]

Am 18.12.2022 um 09:05 schrieb 250swb:

The first post in this thread shows a scratch running down the centre of the film so I think the screws being the culprit is a red herring given they would be nowhere near it. We are perhaps mainly thinking the scratch is happening as the film is being wound through the camera, but maybe it's when it's being rewound? Is there a possibility that when the tension is taken off to rewind the film's natural curl pushes it up against a burr underneath an area such as where the electrical contacts are? Of course this depends on which side of the film the scratch is on.

You are right. It can´t be the screws. Perhaps we can see some pictures of the plate? Or check the cast frame underneath the contacts with a flashlight, perhaps there is anything?

A burr or some superflous paint or something.

[RayD28]

18 hours ago, logan2z said:

I haven't been in the Leica world long enough to say whether these quality issues are a relatively recent phenomena or have always been there to some degree.  But it does seem like we've been hearing more about them in recent months - film cameras scratching film, aperture blades failing, etc.  My own recent experience with an M2 overhaul at Wetzlar ended in disappointment when the camera was returned with a serious issue that required a trip back to the factory - a 3+ month wait and the camera still hasn't been returned, although I've just been told that it's on its way back to me today.   

I do think that Leica needs to up its QC game and prioritize DOA cases appropriately - making customers wait months for a brand new or just overhauled camera to be repaired is unacceptable.

The thing that really bothers me is the wait times, and no accommodation during the wait time.  For instance, how about a loaner?  Might not be another M6, but something current (M10-P/R/MM) so you can continue your hobby/living.  Or, how about a $500 credit toward a later purchase?  As it is now, Leica is out zilch when a defective camera is returned.  

 

[wattsy]

6 minutes ago, RayD28 said:

The thing that really bothers me is the wait times, and no accommodation during the wait time.  For instance, how about a loaner?  Might not be another M6, but something current (M10-P/R/MM) so you can continue your hobby/living.  Or, how about a $500 credit toward a later purchase?  As it is now, Leica is out zilch when a defective camera is returned.  

I think it varies by time and place. I've had loaner cameras (and a lens on one occasion) from Leica in London.

[RayD28]

7 minutes ago, wattsy said:

I think it varies by time and place. I've had loaner cameras (and a lens on one occasion) from Leica in London.

Was it related to a repair for equipment under warranty?  Also, do you mind mentioning the type of repairs and how quickly Leica completed the work?  I'm curious to know if work is expedited when Leica has a loaner out in the wild.  

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, RayD28 said:

The thing that really bothers me is the wait times, and no accommodation during the wait time.  

In the case of my M2, I was told that they would be expediting the repair.  In my naivete, I thought that meant I'd have the camera back in a couple of weeks. No such luck, the repair took three months.  Who knows, maybe it would have been six if they hadn't prioritized it 😉 

According to the tracking info I've been given it's being delivered to me today.  Hopefully the camera will be working properly when it returns. 

[wattsy]

2 hours ago, RayD28 said:

Was it related to a repair for equipment under warranty?  Also, do you mind mentioning the type of repairs and how quickly Leica completed the work?  I'm curious to know if work is expedited when Leica has a loaner out in the wild.  

Yes, it was a repair under warranty in each case. I had a loaner M9 for a cracked M9P sensor repair and a loan of a 75 Summarit for a 75 Summicron focussing adjustment. I was also loaned an M6TTL when my M-A went in for a light leak problem. In each case I think the repair took more than a month but I don’t remember any taking a ludicrous amount of time. The most recent (M-A) was more than five years ago so my experience is unlikely to be representative of the current situation. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by wattsy

[Dbrass]

@Huss - my new MP also the same guy.

I am waiting for film to come back from the lab, fingers crossed.

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[Huss]

1 hour ago, Dbrass said:

@Huss - my new MP also the same guy.

I am waiting for film to come back from the lab, fingers crossed.

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Hopefully he was more meticulous with his professionalism with your camera than he was with mine.

FYI if you get scans, check your negatives. Sometimes the dust removal software that scanners use (for colour film) can reduce the appearance of scratches.

[Dbrass]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

Hopefully he was more meticulous with his professionalism with your camera than he was with mine.

FYI if you get scans, check your negatives. Sometimes the dust removal software that scanners use (for colour film) can reduce the appearance of scratches.

Thanks, I will check the negs aside from the scans. Though I will request the lab tries to scan the negs as raw as possible.

[lmans]

On 12/20/2022 at 6:28 PM, Huss said:

Hopefully he was more meticulous with his professionalism with your camera than he was with mine.

FYI if you get scans, check your negatives. Sometimes the dust removal software that scanners use (for colour film) can reduce the appearance of scratches.

Actually same can hold true for BW too...right? Their machines just might be dirty and thus that would account for the same issue on your complete roll. 

I know I try to get around that issue by using a dark room bag, and then develop my own film and then scan my own film...

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[Huss]

3 hours ago, lmans said:

Actually same can hold true for BW too...right? Their machines just might be dirty and thus that would account for the same issue on your complete roll. 

I know I try to get around that issue by using a dark room bag, and then develop my own film and then scan my own film...

Two rolls I developed myself.  One was sent to a lab. The final test roll was just fed through the camera and not developed - just pulled out to examine the film for scratches.

All four rolls had scratches in the same places.

I'm repeating myself here...