Properties of the DNG picture files do not show the F-stop value and Focal length values (nothing or 0mm shown)

[Paul Le]

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I noticed that the properties of the DNG picture files taken by my new set of the M system (the M11 camera + the Leica Summilux-M 50mm F/1.4 lens) do not shown the F-stop values and the Focal length values (nothing or sometimes 0mm shown).

What could be the issue?  I sent the system (camera and lens) to Leica USA for test, but it seems to me that they only fixed one repair for me only as I requested (replacing a scratch front cover of the viewfinder).  Today, 12/15, I received the camera and I managed to use it with a compatible Voigtlander Norton 50mm f/1.2 lens to take some pictures.  And the issue is the same.

Please help.

Best Regards,

Note that a sample DNG file is too big so I could not attach it here for reference.

[LocalHero1953]

There are many threads asking the same question and getting the same answer. Here is just one - there was another one just a couple of weeks ago, but I can't find it. There is no electronic connection between the lens and the body, so the body does not know what the aperture is - it makes a guess, comparing the actual exposure with the light measured from a meter in the little window above left of the lens.

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[LeicaR10]

Paul Le,  First, welcome to the forum.  Second, Local Hero1953 above is correct on all counts.  r/ Mark

[jaapv]

Welcome to the forum.
The Nekton is not coded so the camera cannot recognize it so it cannot show the focal length in exif. The Summilux? Which Summilux? Only the Summilux 50 asph is coded. Only lenses which are coded ( black and white dots on the bajonet) will show the focal length. 

[01af]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jaapv:

Only the Summilux 50 mm Asph is coded.

Copies manufactured before 2006 aren't (unless updated).

.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jaapv:

Only lenses which are coded (black and white dots on the bajonet) will show the focal length.

An uncoded lens also will show its focal length in the image's EXIF data when it gets manually selected in the camera's lens menu before shooting. There is absolutely no difference, functionally, between a manually selected lens via menu and an automatically detected lens via 6-bit code ... umm, except sooner or later you will forget to properly select (and unselect after use) your uncoded lens.

[jaapv]

I think the OP may have missed this in the manual - otherwise he would not see this as a defect.

[Al Brown]

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7 hours ago, Paul Le said:

Note that a sample DNG file is too big so I could not attach it here for reference.

You *could* attach the print screen of the EXIF though (hint hint).
All above is correct, manual says it all and also thef-stop will NOT be accurate all the time in EXIF because Leica M11 is - due to lack of all electronic contacts - just guesstimating it.

[Keith (M)]

Page 38 of the M11 instruction book - "Lens Detection" reveals all.

[dpitt]

All above is completely correct.
In addition to that:

Entering the correct lens name before shooting will allow the camera to make corrections according to the lens (vignetting, CA...). This matters most for 50mm and shorter focal lengths.

Edited December 16, 2022 by dpitt

[hmzimelka]

8 hours ago, dpitt said:

All above is completely correct.
In addition to that:

Entering the correct lens name before shooting will allow the camera to make corrections according to the lens (vignetting, CA...). This matters most for 50mm and shorter focal lengths.

Lens profiles in the M11 only correct for some vignetting and if necessary, shading correction.

Edited December 17, 2022 by hmzimelka

[dpitt]

On 12/17/2022 at 6:51 AM, hmzimelka said:

Lens profiles in the M11 only correct for some vignetting and if necessary, shading correction.

It's sometimes hard to tell what happened in camera and what in PP before you see a RAW image. But according to this source,it will do more than that only that:

https://lavidaleica.com/content/leica-lens-codes

But when an excessive infrared sensitivity was discovered, "cyan corner" correction was added for use with UV/IR filters and later "red edge" correction on the M9. The coding also provides the focal length and lens identity in the EXIF info of your images. So even if a lens doesn't require corrections, it's worth coding if for nothing else..Knowing which lens it was shot with. To work properly, this system combines the lens code with the framelines that are brought up by the lens mount. It works across all digital M bodies, including the M8, M8.2, M9, M9-P, M Monochrom and the newest M (Type 240).

The source is too old for the M11, but I think it will need more or less the same corrections. And also your PP software will pick up the lens type and do more outside of the camera. As said before, it applies more to lengths shorter than 50mm.

If you enter the lens type manually the effect is exactly the same.
.

[hmzimelka]

54 minutes ago, dpitt said:

It's sometimes hard to tell what happened in camera and what in PP before you see a RAW image. But according to this source,it will do more than that only that:

https://lavidaleica.com/content/leica-lens-codes

But when an excessive infrared sensitivity was discovered, "cyan corner" correction was added for use with UV/IR filters and later "red edge" correction on the M9. The coding also provides the focal length and lens identity in the EXIF info of your images. So even if a lens doesn't require corrections, it's worth coding if for nothing else..Knowing which lens it was shot with. To work properly, this system combines the lens code with the framelines that are brought up by the lens mount. It works across all digital M bodies, including the M8, M8.2, M9, M9-P, M Monochrom and the newest M (Type 240).

The source is too old for the M11, but I think it will need more or less the same corrections. And also your PP software will pick up the lens type and do more outside of the camera. As said before, it applies more to lengths shorter than 50mm.

If you enter the lens type manually the effect is exactly the same.
.

Like I mentioned, only correct for some vignetting (not all) and if necessary, shading correction (cyan/red shift).

For instance, the new APO Summicron-M 35mm has shading correction, therefore not ideal to use the APO 35mm 6 bit code for a lens like the Voigtlander Ultorn 35mm ASPH as it will tend to make the edges cyan to correct for the magenta shift found with the APO. (very slight)

It doesn't correct Lateral CA or distortion... at least not on M. Different story on L mount cameras.

Edited December 18, 2022 by hmzimelka

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, hmzimelka said:

Like I mentioned, only correct for some vignetting (not all) and if necessary, shading correction (cyan/red shift).

For instance, the new APO Summicron-M 35mm has shading correction, therefore not ideal to use the APO 35mm 6 bit code for a lens like the Voigtlander Ultorn 35mm ASPH as it will tend to make the edges cyan to correct for the magenta shift found with the APO. (very slight)

It doesn't correct Lateral CA or distortion... at least not on M. Different story on L mount cameras.

AFAIK:

Distortion is also not corrected in the L-mount cameras. Instead, distortion correction tags are written in the raw file (built-in profile), which can be turned off in some post processors or removed with the DNG Cleaner.

[hmzimelka]

9 hours ago, SrMi said:

AFAIK:

Distortion is also not corrected in the L-mount cameras. Instead, distortion correction tags are written in the raw file (built-in profile), which can be turned off in some post processors or removed with the DNG Cleaner.

Yes, you're right. They are OP Codes written to the RAW files but can be removed. LR will forcefully apply them without the option to turn them off but even then using dcpTool of DNG Cleaner one can remove the OP codes for that. Like with the Leica Q2, after which the strong distortion will be visible.

Edited December 19, 2022 by hmzimelka

[lct]

Contrary to  my digital CL's, my M11 files look identical with and w/o upcodes through DNG Cleaner. Makes zero distortion correction as clear as i can see. I just check "Remove all upcodes" in the DNG Cleaner's settings. Am i missing something?

[lct]

1 hour ago, Musky said:

If the lens isn’t coded and the camera is on AUTO detect it’ll just pick whatever is in the menu. Or whatever you pick. It has no clue what lens is attached. There is no information.

The camera has no clue about actual apertures but it keeps in memory the lens profile selected for the previous uncoded lens so it will apply it by default to same or other uncoded lenses mounted afterwards.

Edited December 19, 2022 by lct

[UliWer]

Am 18.12.2022 um 18:32 schrieb dpitt:

It's sometimes hard to tell what happened in camera and what in PP before you see a RAW image. But according to this source, ...

Well, it's not hard at all to tell, if something happened in the camera or not:

Take a photo with lens correction from the six bit code or the manual selection from the menu, and an identical one with lens correction switched off and switch off any profiles etc. in your RAW converter. Will you be able to see any differences? Yes, if your test photo is taken from a bright blank surface, you will perhaps see some differences in vignetting, but if your photo is from a real scene I am rather sure you will not be able to notice the difference (with an M10 or later model). 

Edited December 19, 2022 by UliWer

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, lct said:

Contrary to  my digital CL's, my M11 files look identical with and w/o upcodes through DNG Cleaner. Makes zero distortion correction as clear as i can see. I just check "Remove all upcodes" in the DNG Cleaner's settings. Am i missing something?

AFAIK M11 does not provide DNGs with built-in profiles (Opcodes). I.e., any distortion correction (sometimes necessary) is optional in the post-processor.
DNGCleaner is not needed for M11 DNGs.