35mm Summilux vs Summicron ASPH comparison

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3 hours ago, KFo said:

I have both.  The Summicron ASPH (most recent version) and the Summilux ASPH FLE (version just before the recent integrated lens hood).

For me the choice is rendering at the boundaries.  If I am really in a mode for wide open effects I run the Lux.  The Cron is my "f8 and don't be late" lens.  I would choose the cron 80% of the time over the lux for general out and around photography often set to f8 hyperfocal distance and shot like a really expensive point and shoot.  That said, I have traveled with the Lux as my sole lens as well.  It all depends.  Don't underestimate the size difference, I find the Lux to be noticeably heavier on the camera.  I do use the lens hoods on both, mostly as bump guards; the front end of the hood tells the story;).

I don't have direct comparison shots between the two.  I pick one or the other as described above.  Browsing through my catalog this morning, except when the Lux is wide open, I really can't tell which one was used.  It could be that my normal style tends to override the lens subtlies or it could be that there isn't a significant difference.  I'll throw a few images in the next couple posts for fun so you can see what I mean.

 

Madrid

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The 35mm 2.0 ASPH weighs 252 grams.

The 35 1.4 FLE v1 weighs 320 grams. 22.25% increase over the cron.

The 35 1.4 FLE v2 weighs 338 grams. 25.45% increase over the cron.

Weigh matters to me, but also size, and the ability to carry an M10-R + lens in a pocket or cross body under a coat. 

If I have to carry a bag ok, but I’m still searching for one that is unobtrusive, minimalist in style, and contours to the body. My closet can attest to search history.

[PeterKKB]

4 hours ago, KFo said:

I have both.  The Summicron ASPH (most recent version) and the Summilux ASPH FLE (version just before the recent integrated lens hood).

For me the choice is rendering at the boundaries.  If I am really in a mode for wide open effects I run the Lux.  The Cron is my "f8 and don't be late" lens.  I would choose the cron 80% of the time over the lux for general out and around photography often set to f8 hyperfocal distance and shot like a really expensive point and shoot.  That said, I have traveled with the Lux as my sole lens as well.  It all depends.  Don't underestimate the size difference, I find the Lux to be noticeably heavier on the camera.  I do use the lens hoods on both, mostly as bump guards; the front end of the hood tells the story;).

I don't have direct comparison shots between the two.  I pick one or the other as described above.  Browsing through my catalog this morning, except when the Lux is wide open, I really can't tell which one was used.  It could be that my normal style tends to override the lens subtlies or it could be that there isn't a significant difference.  I'll throw a few images in the next couple posts for fun so you can see what I mean.

 

Madrid

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Thanks, nice images thanks for sharing! Indeed difficult to tell which is which especially for smaller aperture settings, this one should be the Summilux though...

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[Huss]

FYI I replaced my Summicron Asph v1 with an FLE v1 only because I shoot film 99.9% of the time, and on film every stop of speed counts when the light gets low.

[KFo]

2 hours ago, PeterKKB said:

 

Thanks, nice images thanks for sharing! Indeed difficult to tell which is which especially for smaller aperture settings, this one should be the Summilux though...

1/4: next?

[agiknee]

I have the 35luxFLE (1st gen) and the 35Cron Asph (1st gen). I'll do a test Thursday after my work day and I'll post results

[Jeff S]

My Summilux ASPH v.1 has marginally less tendency to flare and focus shift than my Summicron ASPH v.1, both aspects easily addressed in practical use. Otherwise, differences come down to speed, size/weight and ergonomics (including hood). Any rendering characteristics such as color, contrast, etc can be controlled in shooting and/or PP, including print decisions. Screen comparisons, especially by others, don’t have any significance for me.

Jeff

[jakontil]

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On 12/12/2022 at 9:00 AM, Huss said:

I did not find my Summicron 35 Asph v1 harsh or clinical.

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I agree with Husss, I used fle and cron and i didnt find it harsh or clinical, at some substances, the cron renders very fine for f2

the size matters much for me, claiming that the fle is not much different in terms of size is a bit underwhelming, both hoodless 

At the end of the day, im sticking with either cron or the reissue SR summilux

Edited December 13, 2022 by jakontil

[PeterKKB]

12 hours ago, agiknee said:

I have the 35luxFLE (1st gen) and the 35Cron Asph (1st gen). I'll do a test Thursday after my work day and I'll post results

 

Thanks, I would be really interested to see the results! I'm more interested in the rendering than any zoom-in sharpness comparison, essentially how they would handle the same landscape or portrait in a way. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by PeterKKB

[PeterKKB]

On 12/12/2022 at 3:00 AM, Huss said:

I did not find my Summicron 35 Asph v1 harsh or clinical.

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That's a brilliant image wow. How does the FLE compare to the non-FLE ASPH Summilux? I know about focusing distance, focus shift etc, I'm referring more to rendering. 

[PeterKKB]

19 hours ago, KFo said:

1/4: next?

Barcelona Plaza should be Summicron, also the Barista above I would say Summicron as well, the other 2 more difficult to call I think. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by PeterKKB

[Huss]

1 hour ago, PeterKKB said:

That's a brilliant image wow. How does the FLE compare to the non-FLE ASPH Summilux? I know about focusing distance, focus shift etc, I'm referring more to rendering. 

Thanks!  I don’t know as I have never used a non FLE Lux.  But… here’s the thing.  I’ve found what matters much more than anything is subject/composition/lighting.  Then gear.  Leica makes great lenses, so I’m sure that one will be great too.

Some people can detect the fine nuances in lenses. I can’t, or at least do not pay attention enough!  I just focus on does the complete pic look good to me?  When I look at my catalogue, my favourite shots have been taken using lenses from Pentax, Minolta, Nikon, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Olympus, Fuji.  And Leica.

So why do I use Leica cameras and lenses?  Because I love the way they feel, are built and handle.  As well as the results.

[Al Brown]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

Some people can detect the fine nuances in lenses

This is where the magic happens.

[Jeff S]

I think the ‘magic’ happens, or not, by the user. Otherwise, everyone would produce magic just by lens choice. Analyzing fine nuances of bokeh and such bores me to death, and has nothing to do with wonderful pics/prints IMO.
 

A competent user (photographer/editor/ printer) can produce myriad renderings using any given lens, and any given picture. Some make good choices/decisions, some don’t… well after camera/lens choice. Yes, fine nuances matter, but nuances based on shooting, editing and printing decisions and judgment by the user, not inherent in the gear. Other than maybe at f/1.4, none of my print viewers know or care whether I used my Summicron ASPH or Summilux ASPH, even those with a discerning eye. 

Jeff

[Huss]

5 hours ago, Al Brown said:

This is where the magic happens.

What magic? Spells? Potions?  The magical ability to suddenly be able to take Pulitzer prize winning photos because you happen to pull out a Leica lens instead of one made by someone else?

The uncomfortable but harsh reality is if someone just posted a pic on this site, with no comment to it, and just asked ‘what lens did I use?’    no-one would know.

[Al Brown]

7 hours ago, Huss said:

What magic? Spells? Potions?  The magical ability to suddenly be able to take Pulitzer prize winning photos because you happen to pull out a Leica lens instead of one made by someone else?

The uncomfortable but harsh reality is if someone just posted a pic on this site, with no comment to it, and just asked ‘what lens did I use?’    no-one would know.

The brand has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is the magic of knowing the exact limitations, benefits and abilities of each lens one uses and using that to one’s advantage. The DoPs spend days or even months testing lenses for movies so they could tell a certain visual story in a certain way and wrap up the director’s ideas. Some even help design lenses for a specific project, like DoP Grieg Fraser who co-designed ARRI ALFA anamorphic lenses with the company and which were used on The Batman. I am sure you have heard of Kubrick’s Barry Lyndon and his use of Zeiss f/0.7 lens he borrowed from NASA for his award winning candlelight shots in the movie. True there is no Pulitzer prize, but there is an Academy Award for Cinematography and hugely respected societies called ASC and BSC - one even got a special edition Leica M dedicated to their work which also consists of the ability to pick the proper lens for the job among other magic they do.

Yes, this is where the magic happens.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Al Brown

[Huss]

23 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

The brand has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is the magic of knowing the exact limitations, benefits and abilities of each lens one uses and using that to one’s advantage. The DoPs spend days or even months testing lenses for movies so they could tell a certain visual story in a certain way and wrap up the director’s ideas. Some even help design lenses for a specific project, like DoP Grieg Fraser who co-designed ARRI ALFA anamorphic lenses with the company and which were used on The Batman. I am sure you have heard of Kubrick’s Barry Lyndon and his use of Zeiss f/0.7 lens he borrowed from NASA for his award winning candlelight shots in the movie. True there is no Pulitzer prize, but there is an Academy Award for Cinematography and hugely respected societies called ASC and BSC - one even got a special edition Leica M dedicated to their work which also consists of the ability to pick the proper lens for the job among other magic they do.

Yes, this is where the magic happens.

Ok now put that into perspective for Leica 35mm rangefinder photography.  None of your examples have anything to do with that, the topic we are discussing.  

[Al Brown]

19 minutes ago, Huss said:

Ok now put that into perspective for Leica 35mm rangefinder photography.  None of your examples have anything to do with that, the topic we are discussing.  

Putting in perspective: it has been one of the most asked questions in Leica history since the sixties: summicron or summilux wide open for telling a certain story. The glow of pre-asph 35 or the poppy look of modern 35 cron… etc. etc.

With modern M ”Karbe” 35mm lenses this question has diluted substantially, but in my case and perspective, I still have 3 35mm lenses and one 40, each completely different in render, looks and flaws. Will you be able to tell the difference when looking at my photographs? No idea, but I certainly will. And that is all that matters.

 

[Huss]

8 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Putting in perspective: it has been one of the most asked questions in Leica history since the sixties: summicron or summilux wide open for telling a certain story. The glow of pre-asph 35 or the poppy look of modern 35 cron… etc. etc.

With modern M ”Karbe” 35mm lenses this question has diluted substantially, but in my case and perspective, I still have 3 35mm lenses and one 40, each completely different in render, looks and flaws. Will you be able to tell the difference when looking at my photographs? No idea, but I certainly will. And that is all that matters.

 

You can talk yourself into believing anything.  The only time you may be able to see the difference is wide open.  I can post four pics of the same subject taken w four different 35mm lenses at say f4 and you would not be able to tell which lens was used for which picture.  At 1.4 or 2 you may be able to due to examining the bokeh if there are leaves in the background, but unless there are aids like that you will be hard placed to pick accurately.

I think I’ll do that this weekend and see who can pick which lens took which pic.

[Al Brown]

20 minutes ago, Huss said:

You can talk yourself into believing anything.  The only time you may be able to see the difference is wide open.  I can post four pics of the same subject taken w four different 35mm lenses at say f4 and you would not be able to tell which lens was used for which picture.  At 1.4 or 2 you may be able to due to examining the bokeh if there are leaves in the background, but unless there are aids like that you will be hard placed to pick accurately.

I think I’ll do that this weekend and see who can pick which lens took which pic.

I am only debating wide open, how I shoot 95% of the time. As per post #40, first sentence.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Huss]

12 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

I am only debating wide open, how I shoot 95% of the time. As per post #40, first sentence.

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Agreed, but I'll post some pics taken wide open with my 35s, and see if people can pick them out.