Which 90mm lens for M6

[JuveFC]

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I'm looking to pick up a 90mm lens which will be used mostly for film. So many options out there and i've heard many good things about most but just wanted to see if anybody had any additional info. I wouldn't mind the Elmar F/4 but do prefer the Elmarit F/2.8 since some projects will take place indoors. This lens will be mostly used for portraits. 

 

I did have one question which i'm wondering is there a big difference between the Tele-Elmarit E46 and E39 besides size/weight? In terms of optical quality does the newer E46 surpass the E39 by much? 

 

Any other recommendations? Thanks

[AndreasG]

I bought a used Tele-Elmarit 90 (E39) around 1988. It still works fine with film and digital without any CLA.

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[sdk]

I had a copy of the Thin Tele-Elmarit and really didn't like it much. It was susceptible to flare, and not especially sharp, though not horrible. Voigtlander makes a wonderful Apo Skopar 90mm/2.8 now that is fantastic, excellent color rendition, very low flare, very sharp. Reasonably priced. This is my main telephoto for my Leica M11 now. Should be great on film too.

[sdk]

See https://keirst.myportfolio.com/maine, the top tetraptych was shot with M11 and 90mm/2.8 Apo Skopar (four separate exposures).

[1joel1]

I second the Apo Skopar. It is small and light. I also use a Fat Tele Elmarit (silver) that is superb. It is the same size as the Apo Skopar, but heavier. I also have a newer Elmarit that is nice, but much bigger.

[lct]

38 minutes ago, JuveFC said:

I did have one question which i'm wondering is there a big difference between the Tele-Elmarit E46 and E39 besides size/weight? In terms of optical quality does the newer E46 surpass the E39 by much?

You mean Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8 (E39) and Elmarit 90/2.8 v2 (E46) i guess. My experience with the Tele-Elmarit is limited to the "thin" version. The Elmarit is more bulky and is considered the better lens optically. It has less flare than the Tele-Elmarit and is sharper at f/2.8 at edges and corners mainly but it has also more apparent CA (color fringing). Now for portraits i prefer the Tele-Elmarit that i find more gentle than the Elmarit. The Apo-Skopar 90/2.8 is an excellent lens but i don't use it for portraits. Too sharp and contrasty for my taste. Now if you like showing the skin imperfections of your models, it is a lens to consider certainly. Beware that in spite of its apo design the Apo-Skopar has more color fringing than the Tele-Elmarit. But the latter has significantly more flare when bright light sources like the sun stand outside of the frame. All things considered, the Elmarit is probably the better compromise, besides size/weight, but it is mainly a subjective matter as you know so YMMV.

[a.noctilux]

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For film, I'd go for Summicron 90mm.

When I used slow film, I was happy to have "room" and using f/2 quite often.

- For many decades the plain Summicron-M 90mm ( this one from Wiki )

- now my choice is the nice asph. "same lens" as before with "room" when I need f/2 ( this is from Wiki ...asph. )

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[105012]

On film the APO-Skopar 90mm has become my go to 90mm. Small, light, beautiful images, including portraits. I did get great results from my TE ‘thin’, but you do have to have to be aware where the sun is positioned, no need with the APO-Skopar. I still have the TE ‘thin’, don’t think I’d ever part with it even though it has been shelved…

[earleygallery]

For portraits try an older 9cm f4 Elmar, M mount/coated in excellent optical condition.

[Al Brown]

The Leica Elmar-C 90/4 is incredibly cheap and a very decent performer.

[UliWer]

Well, when you ask about a 90mm lens you are guaranteed that all which may be attached to the M are mentioned. And all are good (as long as you stay away from the Thambar).

There is one, which is very resistant against flare, shows good but not too harsh contrast, has a smooth fall off from sharp to unsharp, shows no distortion or vignetting at all, is very cheap though it bears the Leica brand. 

It is completely unpopular since it is so long, tough it is not heavy (320g against 410g for the late Elmarit-M). Everybody hates it. (Which is good so it stays cheap....) 

It is the first 1:2.8/90mm Elmarit (not "Tele-Elmarit" nor "Elmarit-M"). If you like you can screw off the lens head and use it with extension tubes or bellows on the old Visoflex and have one of the best Macro-lenses ever made for the M-System.

But it's certainly reasonable to look elsewhere since other lenses are much more popular.

[pippy]

I'm going to be different (I suspect) from most members here and for general overall performance will nominate (from my own experience) the 90mm f2.5 / f2.4 Summarit over anything else.

From the 90mm lenses I have (f4 / f2.8 / f2.5 / f2 [x2] )  the v3 Summicron does render very beautifully wide open and, stopped down even slightly, is a truly superb all-rounder; the f2.8 'Thin' Tele-Elmarit, although somewhat prone to flare under certain circumstances, is very tiny, very light and sharp but if you don't absolutely need f2 and the extra 100g of the Summarit over the T-E isn't going to break your back it's difficult to see how the Summarit could possibly be bettered. It does everything extremely well in a very small and remarkably light package.

However!  All that being said as you will be using your 90 with film (for the most part) if I were you I'd go for a v3 Summicron...

Of the lenses I don't know I suspect that the Summicron ASPH would outperform all of the above but perhaps only noticeable at a pixel-peeping level which might not be too much of a consideration if it were going to be used predominantly with film. OTOH if it will be used to a considerable degree with a digi-M then it would get my vote.

Philip.

 

[oldwino]

7 hours ago, UliWer said:

Well, when you ask about a 90mm lens you are guaranteed that all which may be attached to the M are mentioned. And all are good (as long as you stay away from the Thambar).

There is one, which is very resistant against flare, shows good but not too harsh contrast, has a smooth fall off from sharp to unsharp, shows no distortion or vignetting at all, is very cheap though it bears the Leica brand. 

It is completely unpopular since it is so long, tough it is not heavy (320g against 410g for the late Elmarit-M). Everybody hates it. (Which is good so it stays cheap....) 

It is the first 1:2.8/90mm Elmarit (not "Tele-Elmarit" nor "Elmarit-M"). If you like you can screw off the lens head and use it with extension tubes or bellows on the old Visoflex and have one of the best Macro-lenses ever made for the M-System.

But it's certainly reasonable to look elsewhere since other lenses are much more popular.

I picked one of these up recently. It is an overachiever. 

[grahamc]

My favourite of the 90s I have tried for the images it produces is easily the 90:2 v3, if you can handle the weight.  I have the very heavy chrome copy it is just beautiful, but neither version is light. 
 

The 90:2.8 Elmarit-M is quite similar in colour rendition, incredibly well built and smaller / lighter than the 90:2 of course.   I find it a little too sharp for my tastes.  But overall (and given the heft of my chrome 90:2) it’s my favourite as a compromise of practical convenience & rendering.  

I really wanted to like the T-E “thin” but unfortunately didn’t, for me it was quite prone to looking a little flatter in rendition, possibly due to flare.  And to me the colours aren’t as pleasing IMO as the 90:2v3 or 90:2.8 elmarit-m ( both of which match more nicely with my pre-asph era 35s and 50s).     I’ve kept it around for now as really want to like it, it is literally pocketable in a top pocket.

The T-E “fat” I also tried and to my eye matches the T-E thin, just in a thicker body. It’s very nice and build feels more robust, really classic shape with the knurled focus tab and the silver version is beautiful cosmetically .   Same rendering observations as above though, possibly less flare. 
 

All are sharp enough and produce great images these are just my observations from having them at the same time.  
 

If the size and weight isn’t an issue you could skip straight to a black version cron v3.  Or be very happy with the elmarit-m I’m sure. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by grahamc

[grahamc]

I know which one I’d rather carry around but it hasn’t worked out that way for me unfortunately 😁

another very worth a look is the 90:4 minolta rokkor USD250 !

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[a.noctilux]

11 hours ago, UliWer said:

Well, when you ask about a 90mm lens you are guaranteed that all which may be attached to the M are mentioned. And all are good (as long as you stay away from the Thambar).

There is one, which is very resistant against flare, shows good but not too harsh contrast, has a smooth fall off from sharp to unsharp, shows no distortion or vignetting at all, is very cheap though it bears the Leica brand. 

It is completely unpopular since it is so long, tough it is not heavy (320g against 410g for the late Elmarit-M). Everybody hates it. (Which is good so it stays cheap....) 

It is the first 1:2.8/90mm Elmarit (not "Tele-Elmarit" nor "Elmarit-M"). If you like you can screw off the lens head and use it with extension tubes or bellows on the old Visoflex and have one of the best Macro-lenses ever made for the M-System.

But it's certainly reasonable to look elsewhere since other lenses are much more popular.

Now that @UliWermentioned it,

I need to admit that this one is "hiding gem".

Many years ago,  I had found one and out of curiosity wanted to use this Elmarit (long) 2.8/90mm.

I fell in love and bought another one of another color, black anodized, first one is silver.

For so long I didn't use them, so I wanted to retry.

Mount it on my M6, what a good balance and the focus ring at right place with smooth and precise movement.

Even the "90" framing lines are "free" (I compared to the Summicron-M 90mm a bit later, hiding frames as usual ).

The aperture is the roundest closing (I think it's 15 blades), so same round aperture as Elmar 4/90.

...

Some years ago, I wanted to compare lengths of 75mm and 90mm,

Elmarit 90mm, Tele-Elmarit "thin" 2.8/90mm and 2.5/75 Summarit-M (very good lens)

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side note,

the unscrewed optical cell can be useful as experimentations,

here with M10+optical Visoflex III (+ variable focussing ring OTZFO...)

 

another "use" a bit lighter 😉

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by a.noctilux

[pgk]

Having owned most of the 90mm lenses made by Leica for the M, my choice is the f/2.8 Elmarit-M (E46) which has a great balance of performance, low flare, handling and cost. That said, I currently also have a f/2.5 Summarit and the two are very close in terms of image quality with the Summarit having marginally greater chroma (dealt with easily enough in pp). I will probably keep the Elmarit-M though.

My observations on the earlier 90s are that they can be softer at full aperture and flare more (especially the 'thin'). None are bad lenses though flare can be frustrating. I liked the Summicrons (the only one I haven't tried is the current one) but prefer the handling on the slower lenses.

[a.noctilux]

We can see here that there is no "bad" 90mm (Leitz/Leica made).

Not one is "ideal", so we need compromises with each, even my last asph. 2/90 (just another expensive lens ! ) is not "ideal" for every use.

[4r36]

One can easily find the f/2.8 Elmarit-M (E46) in mint condition for way less than a grand today. As pgk said above, great balance of performance, low flare, handling and cost. I wouldn't look for something else, or, at least, not  something way more expensive than it.

Edited November 30, 2022 by 4r36

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[TomB_tx]

Agree all the Leitz 90s are fine performers. With 90 there is pretty thin DOF even at f2.8, and since I prefer smaller lenses I'd pass on the Summicron (Although I use the R version on SLRs.) I've used the FAT TeleElmarit since 1968, and I find it as good as any, if a bit heavy and long focus throw. The Summarit is a worthy successor, and I use it more on digital. As others have mentioned, I picked up an Elmar-C 90 f4 for next to nothing, and it is very good, especially at closer distances. Its optical layout is very similar to the 90 Macro Elmar for a small fraction of the price.  Even the old Elmar ltm models can be nice.

Take your pick - you cant go wrong!