anickpick Posted November 17, 2022 Share #21 Posted November 17, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) According to Leica Switzerland it is true, that the 50 Lux can be optimized for either accurate focus at infinity or accurate focus wide open at about 1.5 meters. I had them optimize it for wide open performance - and I do not see any negative effects at infinity... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 17, 2022 Posted November 17, 2022 Hi anickpick, Take a look here "The 50mm Summilux ASPH was Designed to Front Focus" <-- Leica NJ Technician. Thoughts?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
eyeheartny Posted November 17, 2022 Author Share #22 Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jk1002 said: I would not recommend third party repairs on brand new under warranty products. That may void the warranty and you might have bigger problems later where you would want to use the official warranty. Can you run tests with a tripod? Your body might actually be moving a bit back and forward while taking pictures. Also could you post samples? If you recompose wide open that will mess things up I would think. Best JK The tests were done on a tripod with a Spyder LensCal focus chart. The camera was not moving between test images. This one shows an example of the behavior I was seeing. Leica indicated they found a rangefinder issue on the M11 that they claim they've resolved this week. They are now saying they can't get the 50 Lux to focus accurately wide open without compromising its focus closed. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited November 17, 2022 by eyeheartny Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/347859-the-50mm-summilux-asph-was-designed-to-front-focus/?do=findComment&comment=4567920'>More sharing options...
eyeheartny Posted November 17, 2022 Author Share #23 Posted November 17, 2022 3 hours ago, anickpick said: According to Leica Switzerland it is true, that the 50 Lux can be optimized for either accurate focus at infinity or accurate focus wide open at about 1.5 meters. I had them optimize it for wide open performance - and I do not see any negative effects at infinity... Did they charge you for that optimization? Leica NJ tried to say yesterday that that's a "custom" job and they'd have to charge. Considering the lens was front focusing badly I have no idea why they're saying that if they have to do work on the lens. Curious what that cost you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeheartny Posted November 17, 2022 Author Share #24 Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, archive_all said: This is the part that sounds more odd regarding what Leica NJ thinks is acceptable. Is something out of adjustment with the FLE part of the lens or is it the bodies RF? I don't have an M11 but fairly recently checked one out in store and put my lens on it. Shot a few images back and forth with my M10 and both were as accurate. Of course that's one M11 sample. Do you have any other M lenses or bodies to reference against? I just got this note from Leica NJ: Quote "Our head technician found an issue with the rangefinder on your camera and is actively swapping the main body of the camera and the rangefinder for a new one himself. The rest of the camera and the serial number will be from your original camera body. He is optimistic he should be able to finish this by tomorrow despite it being a fairly intensive job. This should rectify the significant variance you were seeing in focusing from infinity to the point of focus and from minimum to the point of focus. He is then going to test the lens on the body and get it to the tightest tolerances he’s able to, including minimizing front focusing. This should rectify the various issues we’ve discussed. Absolutely bonkers. So they're apparently fully disassembling my camera, putting in a new rangefinder unit, and reassembling? I'm not even sure what to make of it. Edited November 17, 2022 by eyeheartny Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
didier Posted November 17, 2022 Share #25 Posted November 17, 2022 18 hours ago, 84bravo said: My 50mm f1.4 ASPH is tack sharp wide open. I have a number of M bodies and it focuses properly and is sharp with al of them. +1 I have 2 ‘lux 50 asph : . the standard version I bought back in 2005 that worked fine with my film M bodies. When I used it on my first digital body (M240) I was disappointed by its performance (I did not notice if it was front focusing or not). I brought it to Wetzlar where they serviced it for free (then a 10 year old Lens!) as they told me it was completely off. ever since I have nothing to complain with my copy. . the Black Chrome version my wife bought me a few months ago for my birthday it is tack sharp wide open and - in my view - sharper than my standard version. No focusing problem either. Didier 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
84bravo Posted November 17, 2022 Share #26 Posted November 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, didier said: . the standard version I bought back in 2005 that worked fine with my film M bodies. When I used it on my first digital body (M240) I was disappointed by its performance (I did not notice if it was front focusing or not). I brought it to Wetzlar where they serviced it for free (then a 10 year old Lens!) as they told me it was completely off. ever since I have nothing to complain with my copy. . the Black Chrome version my wife bought me a few months ago for my birthday it is tack sharp wide open and - in my view - sharper than my standard version. No focusing problem either. I have three 50mm Summilux's. The most recent asph, the V2 pre-asph, and the V1 pre-asph. All of my lenses were purchased used. The pre-asphs look cosmetically well used, but the glass is clear and haze/fog free. The asph was mint in the box when I bought it. It now shows the years of heavy use. The only lens that front focuses wide open is the V1. For the longest time I thought the lens was just a dog. Recently I found that it was designed to front focus wide open. Once I knew to very slightly touch the focus towards infinity my results with that lens were greatly improved. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted November 17, 2022 Share #27 Posted November 17, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) I could tell you a litany of stories about bad service from Leica NJ going back twenty five years to recently. Most recently was the note I received back with my brand new M10-R black paint that the infinity focus was off right out of the box. The snarky note said something to the essence of 'The rf patch doesn't always line up at infinity even if if calibrated' which is a bunch of hooey if you ask me, and them trying to make it seem as if I was being picky (it was extremely out) and haven't shot M's for the past thirty years. I recently sent a lens to DAG, and even though the communication was worryingly non-existent until he finished it, the lens came back working like it never had before (apparently the cause of the issues was a botched repair by the previous owner). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anickpick Posted November 17, 2022 Share #28 Posted November 17, 2022 vor 2 Stunden schrieb eyeheartny: Did they charge you for that optimization? Leica NJ tried to say yesterday that that's a "custom" job and they'd have to charge. Considering the lens was front focusing badly I have no idea why they're saying that if they have to do work on the lens. Curious what that cost you. Leica Switzerland has fine-tuned several cameras and lenses for me in recent years - allways free of charge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaeger Posted November 17, 2022 Share #29 Posted November 17, 2022 22 hours ago, eyeheartny said: tech service manager, who reported to me, that "wide open the 50mm Summilux ASPH was designed to front focus, so it will never be fully accurate at 1.4 because then it would not accurately focus at narrower apertures." These NJ folks in white gown told me many idiotic jokes before but this one is a classic. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaeger Posted November 17, 2022 Share #30 Posted November 17, 2022 54 minutes ago, anickpick said: Leica Switzerland has fine-tuned several cameras and lenses for me in recent years - allways free of charge. that's great. mind to share the location? I am going to Switzerland soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anickpick Posted November 17, 2022 Share #31 Posted November 17, 2022 vor 12 Minuten schrieb jaeger: that's great. mind to share the location? I am going to Switzerland soon. My photo dealer coordinated the work with Leica. But there is also the possibility to visit Leica. In this case I recommend contacting them by phone before a visit: Leica Camera AG, Hauptstrasse 104, 2560 Nidau / Phone: +41 (0)32 332 90 90 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeheartny Posted November 18, 2022 Author Share #32 Posted November 18, 2022 2 hours ago, jaeger said: These NJ folks in white gown told me many idiotic jokes before but this one is a classic. I almost couldn’t believe it when he said it over the phone. I flipped out on him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymc226 Posted November 18, 2022 Share #33 Posted November 18, 2022 23 hours ago, eyeheartny said: I’ve heard horror stories about him abandoning peoples projects for months at a time and not returning emails. To be honest I’m nervous about using him due to that. I’ve heard better customer service stories about YYe. It just absolutely yanks my chain to think that I have to incur additional cost to get a lens working at a baseline level of performance. Really undermines my confidence in Leica as a whole if this is how bad their QC and repair services are. Don has been consistently good if not great in my experience. I have used Don several times, most recently in adjusting a back focusing lens. He has always answered the phone and when I called and this time asked if I needed the lens back by a certain date. This was in mid October and I just requested it to be back in time for Thanksgiving. I sent the lens in October 21, 2nd day UPS: Don invoiced me after the repair was complete on 10/25 and received it back several days later. The only issue is you need to have Don add additional insurance on the return trip which will be added to your bill. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeheartny Posted November 18, 2022 Author Share #34 Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, ymc226 said: Don has been consistently good if not great in my experience. I have used Don several times, most recently in adjusting a back focusing lens. He has always answered the phone and when I called and this time asked if I needed the lens back by a certain date. This was in mid October and I just requested it to be back in time for Thanksgiving. I sent the lens in October 21, 2nd day UPS: Don invoiced me after the repair was complete on 10/25 and received it back several days later. The only issue is you need to have Don add additional insurance on the return trip which will be added to your bill. Good to hear but I’m not going to go outside Leica while my camera is under warranty. Someone pointed out here that that might void my warranty and I absolutely won’t do that. considering Leica is replacing the entire rangefinder unit I can’t even imagine what it would have cost with a 3rd party repair person. Has anyone heard of Leica ripping out and replacing the entire rangefinder unit before? Edited November 18, 2022 by eyeheartny 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 18, 2022 Share #35 Posted November 18, 2022 10 minutes ago, ymc226 said: The only issue is you need to have Don add additional insurance on the return trip which will be added to your bill. Last time Don shipped a lens back to me was $10. My insurance would cover any problems, regardless. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 18, 2022 Share #36 Posted November 18, 2022 11 minutes ago, eyeheartny said: Good to hear but I’m not going to go outside Leica while my camera is under warranty. Someone pointed out here that that might void my warranty +1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymc226 Posted November 18, 2022 Share #37 Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, eyeheartny said: Good to hear but I’m not going to go outside Leica while my camera is under warranty. Someone pointed out here that that might void my warranty and I absolutely won’t do that. considering Leica is replacing the entire rangefinder unit I can’t even imagine what it would have cost with a 3rd party repair person. I understand completely. FWIW, my new 50 Summilux ASPH was also off when purchased new along with several other new lenses which I thought was unacceptable especially given the premium prices. Now after living in the Leica world since 2009 and having many more M lenses, I no longer am upset and consider it par for the course for having Leica as my only brand. I just like the interface and colors that much. Not that this is an acceptable solution, but I use the M11 Visoflex when focusing most of the time. It's not worth worrying enough in regards to focus shift for longer lenses when shooting environmental portraits. Edited November 18, 2022 by ymc226 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 18, 2022 Share #38 Posted November 18, 2022 10 minutes ago, eyeheartny said: Good to hear but I’m not going to go outside Leica while my camera is under warranty. Someone pointed out here that that might void my warranty and I absolutely won’t do that. considering Leica is replacing the entire rangefinder unit I can’t even imagine what it would have cost with a 3rd party repair person. I would have insisted that my dealer replace the new M11; otherwise, at least have had them send to Germany. A good dealer like Leica Miami would not send it to NJ anyway. I wouldn’t hesitate to have Don do a minor lens calibration. Different strokes… Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeheartny Posted November 18, 2022 Author Share #39 Posted November 18, 2022 Just now, ymc226 said: I understand completely. FWIW, my new 50 Summilux ASPH was also off when purchased new along with several other new lenses which I thought was unacceptable especially given the premium prices. Now after living in the Leica world since 2009 and having many more M lenses, I no longer am upset and consider it par for the course for having Leica as my only brand. I just like the interface and colors that much. Not that this is any acceptable solution, but I use the M11 Visoflex when focusing most of the time. It's not worth worrying enough in regards to focus shift for longer lenses when shooting environmental portraits. Glad you’ve reached that point. If Leica can’t get my gear working as expected (accurate and reliable focus) I’ll be selling my stuff and moving on. I am not at a point in life where I will willingly pay $13k for something that works poorly and inconsistently. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jk1002 Posted November 18, 2022 Share #40 Posted November 18, 2022 The way I understand the issue is that the direction of the focussing, infinity towards closest distance causes the front focussing issue. So its not a traditional front or back focussing issue that we see when the range finder is not aligned. If this is design, then it should happen on other cameras with that lens as well. Can someone try this in a similar controlled scenario with sample photos? That should help to manage the guys in Nj. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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