Why is this Elmarit 135mm f2.8 isn't compatible with my M or R mount adaptors?

[agriffin12]

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I bought this lens on Ebay and it doesn't work with either my lieca R to Sony E mount, or my leica M to sony E mount. It looks like there is another piece that's missing from this lens. can I switch out the bayonette by unscrewing the silver metal part? How do I get this lens on an E mount? 

 

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[pedaes]

So pleased you dropped in with this question. Thank you so much for posting.

What was it advertised as? Did you ask Ebay? Single,two or three cam mount - all used with this lens? Or has the mount been changed? The mount looks recessed - is it?

Edited November 15, 2022 by pedaes

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello agriffin12,

Welcome to the Forum.

What you appear to have here is a rangefinder lens for a Leica "M", which was made in 1969. Please note the sloping metal cut out in the mount. It is for the rangefinder roller. It is near the bottom of the glass element in the first photo.

What appears to be missing is the accompanying "goggles".

You can see a picture of what this should be in the WIKI at the top of this page if you "click" "English" & then go to the lens section for "M" cameras & lenses. And then look at the second version of the 135mm f2.8 Elmarit. It appears that the "goggles" are missing on your lens. And the the lens mount, which is sunken into the lens on your copy: Is above the end of the lens in Model II lenses as delivered from the factory. 

Could we please see the side of the lens with the numbers engraved on it?

Best Regards,

Michael

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Michael Geschlecht

[adan]

While I am not an expert on this, I believe what you have been sold is a 135mm Elmarit LENS HEAD ONLY for the M system. Not a complete lens.

It appears to have one of the adapters for use on a mechano-optical VISOFLEX III viewing system from the 1960s, but it will not work "as is" without the Visoflex viewing device installed on a camera (the lens will simply be too short, and too close to the sensor, and only focus "beyond infinity," as it is now).

See diagram at the bottom of this link to see how the LENS HEAD attaches to a VISOFLEX III viewing device (not to be confused with the Leica electronic viewfinders called "Visos" - they have nothing in common except the historical name).

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Visoflex_III

https://wiki.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Visoflex

The lens head is designed to be hot-swappable by users - between a traditional M rangefinder-focus mount (tube, ring, cam, combined) or the Visoflex - but you will need to get EITHER the M-rangefinder focusing mount tube to use it on an M rangefinder for simple traditional rangefinder focusing OR simple EVF focusing with either the SONY or Leica EVF "Viso." (Again it is a question of correct spacing from the sensor/film)....

OR get the Visoflex III for ground-glass-SLR-style focusing.

The issue with finding an M 135 f/2.8 RF focusing mount to work with this lens head is that it will have to match the exact focal length of your particular lens head unit to focus accurately. Which may be 134.5mm, 135mm, 135.5mm or 136mm. The exact focal length was probably (?) scratched into or penciled on the inner metal of the lens head somewhere, when it left the factory decades ago. Possibly abbreviated as "45," "50," "55," or "60."

Edited November 16, 2022 by adan

[UliWer]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb Michael Geschlecht:

Could we please see the side of the lens

Yes, otherwise it is just guessing.

If only the goggles were removed, you would't see a bayonet mount, since this is fixed to the goggles. If it were just the lens head, you wouldn't see a bayonet mount either, since the head has none.

it may be the lens head screwed into the 16474 mount to be used on the Visoflex - though the recessed mount looks odd. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by UliWer

[MattiasAndersson]

Two pictures for reference, of a later Elmarit-M 135, but mount should be the same.

Lens focus is in infinty (shortest length), note distance from lens element and mount.

 

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Edited November 16, 2022 by MattiasAndersson
M not R

[UliWer]

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I think it is the combination of the lens head with the 16462-mount to be used on the Visoflex (the 16474 I mentioned above is just the extension tube you can use to get closer, but it has no mount of course). From the rear the 16462 looks like this:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/144808333999?hash=item21b73fd2af:g:YxoAAOSwdvNjcFJ-&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoEATheO6k6FVsQZbBaHal2xHjvkTbL9s%2Bdf1kdC6%2FOQzJDEJA41nfS8jVFnls%2B7wSmVrPWSKxR6JBKQ9ZeeYMGxWcueKjNn%2FxClDRDkVw%2Fl%2ByGu6ocARZrfRwB3VYJgjdvj5dTZJnn9KKvaD5CU38qUZJOY4jQtDTpyAPfDWX61gQwRNmJaXvXkGM7ueBx7G8iaJbdjAsMRbv45GgeAA8Ic%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR_rshIGQYQ

 

[PwoS]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb pedaes:

... Single,two or three cam mount - all used with this lens? ...

Hi,

this is clearly no Leicaflex or Leica R mount, as it shows four tabs. Technically this is an M-type bayonett mount, but the protruding collar prevents mounting it directly to the camera (or in this case the adapter M-to-E.) I'd guess this lens is for use on a Visoflex-III mirror housing.

[MattiasAndersson]

A Novoflex LEM/VIS-III would perhaps be correct in length?
No rangefinder focusing, but for mirrorless focusing?

[MattiasAndersson]

6 minutes ago, MattiasAndersson said:

A Novoflex LEM/VIS-III would perhaps be correct in length?
No rangefinder focusing, but for mirrorless focusing?

 

6 minutes ago, MattiasAndersson said:

A Novoflex LEM/VIS-III would perhaps be correct in length?
No rangefinder focusing, but for mirrorless focusing?

No, external diameter of LEM/VIS-II is 60 mm, and release knob would be difficult to operate.

[pippy]

15 hours ago, pedaes said:

...What was it advertised as?...

This was my first thought which was immediately followed by 'If you didn't know what it was why on Earth did you buy it?'. Very strange decision.

As has been said posting more photographs of the thing would help considerably.

Philip.

[a.noctilux]

 

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Look like ring 16462 mounted with lens optical cell 2.8/135mm 11828

to be used with Visoflex II/III

 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by a.noctilux

[UliWer]

The thread reminded me that I always wanted to get a 16462🙂

Here it is on the right with the lens head of the 135mm Elmarit-M.  The recessed bayonet mount, which I called "odd" above, looks completely natural, if one remembers that the flange of the Visoflex (on the left) is well protruded:

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Though the recessed mount fitting the Visoflex perfectly also means that other devices to replace the Visoflex won't fit. The Novoflex LEM/VIS certainly doesn't, neither does the usual extension ring OUFRO/16469. So to use the combination of the 16462 and the Elmarit's lens head the Visoflex seems to be the sole solution.

What I still find odd is the cam of the 16462's mount. It looks as if it would activate the rangefinder mechanism on the M like usual M lenses do. But this is impossible as the mount will never fit directly on the camera and it does not move when you focus.