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Anyone having regrets about their M10M?


snooper

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44 minutes ago, mcpallesen said:

If you can only get sharp images at 1/250 and above on 40MP, you need to look into basic technique.

Also Photography is about how images look at normal viewing distances either on big prints or screen. Zooming to 100% and saying the plane on pixel level is not perfect sharp is turning photography into a technical fallacy, it was never meant to be. At same “pixel zoom level” (in lack of a better term), I’m sure your 24 and 40 MP images are equally sharp. But yes, you can zoom “deeper” on pixel level with 40 MP. Which still has nothing to do with photography. If that was a criteria, I believe almost all of the most famous images taken in the past century should be deleted and re-recorded (probably with a Sony A something or Nikon D5/D6 - pick your poison). 😊

 

 

The criteria is simple, i get less blurry images and i worry less (or don’t worry at all) about shutter speed with a film camera or M9/M240/M10, whereas with all leicas after that I do. And not because I pixel peep or I have problems with my technique or want the ultimate sharpness. Simply pictures below 1/250 that I’d expect to not be blurry are on the M10M/M11, no pixel peeping or zoom required.

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Zero M10M regrets here. It is by far my favorite camera because there is nothing like it. I just did a test at ISO 12.5k comparing the M11 to the M10M. Same shot, same lens, all settings the same. I preferred the M10M shot as it had less noise and nicer grain (both files exported at 5000px on the long edge). I doubt anyone viewing the file would care, but to me the M10M file was much nicer. I keep a yellow filter on the lens and it feels about as close to shooting film as one can get with digital. The M11 is my favorite color camera and I look forward to a M11M.

Edited by Crem
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Am 12.11.2022 um 19:54 schrieb snooper:

Ok let me be very clear: I made a huge mistake. I was amongst the first French customers to get a M10M when it went out. Loved it. Had all the previous monochrome iterations, but the M10M came like the perfect camera. 

Then came the mistake. My usual suspects @ Leica told me that the M11 would do the job to replace the M10M AND get that color shot you would miss if you were to be carrying only the mono.

So I did this stupid trade in. Mono out and M11 in. But the M11 is NOT at all my fav camera. Actually I hate it. Motion blur being the first concern, forcing you to use very high Iso and therefore loose all the XX millions megapixels advantages. But that is just an opinion, and I share it with myself after using my M11 less than 250 shots.

I was wondering if someone here would have the same feeling about their M10M, with a camera left unused on the shelf... Kind of "why did I buy this camera, I should have get a M11".

And then comes the proposal : take my M11 and give me your unused (same condition) M10M !!! 😁

Have a great day !

 

I returned my M11 for a M10-R BP and added a few weeks later a M10M.
Best decision of the year! 

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Actually, the M10M is the reason I am working again with Leica M. I sold all the Leica gear, including a M246, 4 years ago and replaced it with Fuji GFX cameras and lenses. Everything was fine… but I missed the Monochrom very much. Last october I bought a M10M, the last 28 Elmarit and the 35 Apo-Lanthar. I’m very satisfied with the M10M. The quality is unbelievable, also with the Super-Angulon R 28mm shift, which I did not sold. I very much like how small the Leica M is compared to the GFX100S. The 40 mono megapixels of the M10M are actually, when printed, quite comparable to the 102 color megapixels of the GFX100S. The absence in the M10M of sensor stabilization doesn’t worries me.

Edited by Manolo Laguillo
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On 11/13/2022 at 4:28 PM, dbeids said:

M10M is my favorite camera…period

+1

 

never looked back since I got the M10M as soon as end of January 2020

only 'drawback' : I added quite a few new Lenses since the camera is so nice to use and offers the possibility to show the Character of every Lens :)

 

added a Q2r for the occasional color / snapshot

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18 hours ago, Manolo Laguillo said:

I very much like how small the Leica M is compared to the GFX100S. The 40 mono megapixels of the M10M are actually, when printed, quite comparable to the 102 color megapixels of the GFX100S. The absence in the M10M of sensor stabilization doesn’t worries me.

Absolutely agree. As an owner of a GFX100S (who then also added the M10 Monochrom), the megapixel difference on paper now seems misleading to me when comparing these 2 cameras, because at 50-60” wide prints of an identical scene off both cameras I can see essentially no difference at all in now much fine detail is recorded. I tested them together with equivalent focal lengths, tripod mounted etc.  What I do see is a slightly different “rendering”, and here I prefer the M10M over the GFX100S because the absence of the color filter array gives a purer and less processed look to my eyes. The M10 Monochrom is actually the first digital camera I’ve ever used where the output seems so natural and unprocessed that I don’t miss large format film.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/19/2022 at 9:11 AM, didier said:

+1

never looked back since I got the M10M as soon as end of January 2020

only 'drawback' : I added quite a few new Lenses since the camera is so nice to use and offers the possibility to show the Character of every Lens :)

added a Q2r for the occasional color / snapshot

Helping the user build his M lens collection is one of the M10M's many strengths.  😁

Edited by Herr Barnack
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  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/12/2022 at 7:54 PM, snooper said:

Then came the mistake. My usual suspects @ Leica told me that the M11 would do the job to replace the M10M AND get that color shot you would miss if you were to be carrying only the mono.

Remind me of the time when my M Monochrom original got sensor disease. I stupidly accepted to exchange it for an M-P typ 240. More MP, colours, better body, etc… but  I hated it and sell it as fast as possible. 
Monochrom are unique. No colour can replace them. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 11/13/2022 at 11:34 AM, ramarren said:

Zero regrets whatever. Love shooting with it. 

If I were to get another M body for color, I'd buy an M10-R so as to have the same controls and use the same batteries/visoflex. 

I've now got an M10-R on the way. It will be interesting to see how much I use the R vs the M. Really really love shooting with the M. :)

G

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It's great to see how devoted M10M owners are to their cameras. Worryingly so, I'm tempted. But what has interested me more here is the issue of motion blur. I previously thought that all those claiming higher shutter speeds were needed when shooting at higher resolutions were deluded. With film I never worried about using higher shutter speeds when using Kodachrome or Velvia, than for Tri-X, quite the opposite.

Recently however,  I rented an M10-R, to use alongside my M10-P, and noticed a very faint motion blur on so many of the M10-R's pictures that wasn't there on the images from the M10-P. Certainly pixel peeping made the blur more apparent, but this faintest of fuzziness seemed to be visible without any magnification at all. Do cinema cameras suffer the same issues? Who wants to give up all shutter speeds slower than 1/250?

Since there is no standard steady hand I presume there is no reliable way of testing.

In an attempt to return to the topic at hand, I will second the views of another member,  that my only regret is that I have yet to experience the M10-M. 

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19 minutes ago, Sid Bolan said:

It's great to see how devoted M10M owners are to their cameras. Worryingly so, I'm tempted. But what has interested me more here is the issue of motion blur. I previously thought that all those claiming higher shutter speeds were needed when shooting at higher resolutions were deluded. With film I never worried about using higher shutter speeds when using Kodachrome or Velvia, than for Tri-X, quite the opposite.

Recently however,  I rented an M10-R, to use alongside my M10-P, and noticed a very faint motion blur on so many of the M10-R's pictures that wasn't there on the images from the M10-P. Certainly pixel peeping made the blur more apparent, but this faintest of fuzziness seemed to be visible without any magnification at all. Do cinema cameras suffer the same issues? Who wants to give up all shutter speeds slower than 1/250?

Since there is no standard steady hand I presume there is no reliable way of testing.

In an attempt to return to the topic at hand, I will second the views of another member,  that my only regret is that I have yet to experience the M10-M. 

You must shoot it above 1/250 to avoid all motion blur. You may use lower shutter speeds but you have to be very mindful of movement. If you just want to shoot without thinking about it, set auto ISO to 4f or to above 1/250 and you’ll be ok with 35mm / 50mm lenses. While it sucks tbh…the good thing is that M10M can do high ISO until 25,000 with good results, so it compensates for that

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I've been shooting with high resolution (45mpx+) bodies for some time and was one of the "deluded" who posted about higher shutter speeds needed to stop blur from camera motion.  I find it only a problem if I do a heavy crop or print very big. For almost all of my use any blur is not visible since the images are resized smaller.  If you resize the shots from the M10-R to the size of those from your M10-P you will no longer see it.

Like others, my M10 Monochrom regret is not having one. 🙂

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I suppose everyone shoots different subjects but one of mine is my fast moving children and I need 1/250 to stop their motion blur, never mind minute camera shake.  Seems people love to prematurely optimise on features that aren't relative to real world usage.  Ordered my m10-m yesterday from mpb, very excited. Love my q2m but miss an OVF / proper manual focus.

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It has been obvious to me for decades that no hand-held photographs with any camera+lens are ever as sharp as using the same camera+lens mounted on a sturdy tripod. At any shutter speed... The M10-M is no different from any other camera in this respect. When I want maximum sharpness, I use a tripod. Period. 

Is the M10-M's increased resolution more susceptible to camera motion blurring than a lower resolution camera? The answer is logically yes. By what difference ... I have no idea, I've not tested this thesis nor have I seen anything significant in my photos to inform me.

Most of the time maximum sharpness is a distant second in importance to emotive feel in a photograph, in my opinion... So I blithely wander about with camera in hand making unfettered exposures. :D;) 

G

"My sharpest lens is a sturdy tripod."

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13 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

You must shoot it above 1/250 to avoid all motion blur. You may use lower shutter speeds but you have to be very mindful of movement. If you just want to shoot without thinking about it, set auto ISO to 4f or to above 1/250 and you’ll be ok with 35mm / 50mm lenses. While it sucks tbh…the good thing is that M10M can do high ISO until 25,000 with good results, so it compensates for that

Not my experience.  At same (small/moderate) print sizes, I shoot my M10 Monochrom (and M10-R) at the same lower handheld shutter speeds that I used in daylight with my M10… and M240…and M(9) Monochrom…and M8.2…. and various film M’s before that (with moderately fast film). Of course I use a tripod for optimal sharpness. 

Jeff

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