Where has all the colour film gone

[mediumformula]

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20 hours ago, nicci78 said:

This is what happen when monopoly is formed. 

Kodak is now the last and sole colour film manufacturer.

Even Fujifilm left the field and let Kodak and Ilford made their film for them. 

By the way, there are only three B&W film manufacturers left : Kodak, Ilford and Foma. 
Fujifilm new B&W ACROS II is actually an Ilford made film. 

This is sad, no more competition in the film industry. Fujifilm should be rename Fujipharma or Fujinstax

Film Ferrania

[Huss]

Fyi B&H is out of stock while I can walk to my local RiteAid where Fuji 200 is in stock and cheaper!

[trisberg]

2 hours ago, Huss said:

at my local Rite Aid and they have Fuji 200 and 400

Yes, picked up a Fuji Superia X-TRA 400 3-pack at my local CVS pharmacy for a lot less than B&H charges ATM.

-Thomas

[quietglow]

11 hours ago, hillavoider said:

Any tips on how you load it and use it 

After years messing around with a bulk loading device, these days I just go into my darkroom and do it by hand. You lose fewer frames and it's faster. I measure using my outstretched hand to the middle of my chest, and it gives me a ~18 frame roll, which I like. Kodak pop cap cannisters are still available NOS and are not too expensive. The plastic ones sold these days tend to leak light and fuzz from the light trap.

8 hours ago, archive_all said:

Looking into this a bit more it looks easy to order 400 ft or 1000 ft. rolls and the price gets better and better. Is the developing process much different aside from different chemicals and washing off the remjet after blix?

 

I have been buying 100' rolls, but I may grab a 400' eventually. It's different than C41 development only in the remjet removal and the operating temp for the chem (106f). In fact, people develop these films in c41 and claim to get good results (some claim better). I think it causes color shifts and increases contrast, removing one of the film's amazing qualities: it's latitude.

Kodak publishes the recipes for the whole process, and there are a few places online where people have broken down exactly where to get the chemistry. If anyone is interested in the route I went, I'll post it in detail. It's all available very easily. You can also buy kits from several places. They tend to be adaptions of the Kodak recipes, often opting to avoid the more dangerous chemicals (the Kodak stop bath uses sulfuric acid). One thing they also tend to avoid is the correct recipe for the remjet removal because it contains sodium hydroxide (lye). Whichever route you go, you DEFINITELY want the real deal for remjet removal because the weaker routes involve much more work and danger to the film. With the lye based remover, you just soak the film for 10' and wipe it a couple times at the end. Here's a post comparing methods that I found super helpful:

 

 

[quietglow]

Here's a shot on 50d. This is a straight scan, no post (Nikon LS-5000). I love this film so much.

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[Doc Henry]

1 hour ago, quietglow said:

Here's a shot on 50d. This is a straight scan, no post (Nikon LS-5000). I love this film so much.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Hilavoider ,   I buy all my films here :  https://www.fotoimpex.com/

Quietglow , Red is stunning with this film

Regards Henry

[ianman]

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8 hours ago, mediumformula said:

Film Ferrania

What’s the news from them? Are they still trying? I bought some P30 a few years ago but it wasn’t widely available. As for their colour film, it seems still firmly stuck in its black hole.

[mediumformula]

53 minutes ago, ianman said:

What’s the news from them? Are they still trying? I bought some P30 a few years ago but it wasn’t widely available. As for their colour film, it seems still firmly stuck in its black hole.

Not totally sure but I was at Brooklyn Film Camera the other day and they had P30 in stock. 

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[hillavoider]

10 hours ago, Doc Henry said:

Hilavoider ,   I buy all my films here :  https://www.fotoimpex.com/

Quietglow , Red is stunning with this film

Regards Henry

Thanks Doc Henry, they have stock of most things by the look of it. 

After some searching i am going to try out this as its in stock and looks interesting Agfa Eagle 200 - 1 Roll - Fotofast

Its: Agfa Traffic Camera Surveillance Stock

 

[ianman]

8 hours ago, hillavoider said:

Thanks Doc Henry, they have stock of most things by the look of it. 

Be careful with that. Twice I’ve bought filters from them that have been “in stock” but then took weeks to ship because they had to order them first!

[Anbaric]

I'd assumed Ferrania was rarely available, but I just checked and at least one of the UK suppliers has it in stock (though it's nearly 1.5x the price of FP4). That still makes it, bizarrely, cheaper and easier to find than Superia on this side of the pond. I'll feel more confident that Fuji aren't just thawing out old bulk rolls and cutting and packaging them for selected markets if and when Superia appears in quantity again in countries other than the US (and presumably Japan). A long expiry date, as always, means that Fuji are happy with the QC of what they are releasing now and expect it to remain that way when kept under less controlled conditions for a couple of years. But it may not tell us much about when the bulk rolls were originally coated - film keeps very well in industrial cold storage.

[Huss]

16 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

I'd assumed Ferrania was rarely available, but I just checked and at least one of the UK suppliers has it in stock (though it's nearly 1.5x the price of FP4). That still makes it, bizarrely, cheaper and easier to find than Superia on this side of the pond. I'll feel more confident that Fuji aren't just thawing out old bulk rolls and cutting and packaging them for selected markets if and when Superia appears in quantity again in countries other than the US (and presumably Japan). A long expiry date, as always, means that Fuji are happy with the QC of what they are releasing now and expect it to remain that way when kept under less controlled conditions for a couple of years. But it may not tell us much about when the bulk rolls were originally coated - film keeps very well in industrial cold storage.

Do you have any proof that Fuji is just thawing old stock film?  Or just making that up?  The logical answer is they are making it, but due to supply issues that everyone is seeing, not in quantities as in the past.  They then primarily distribute it in their major markets, which would be the US and Japan.

The fact that some Fuji 200 was rebranded Kodak for a short while implies that production has now resumed.  If Fuji was sitting on old frozen stock, they could have just used that.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Huss

[oldwino]

On 11/9/2022 at 3:32 AM, quietglow said:

After years messing around with a bulk loading device, these days I just go into my darkroom and do it by hand. You lose fewer frames and it's faster. I measure using my outstretched hand to the middle of my chest, and it gives me a ~18 frame roll, which I like. Kodak pop cap cannisters are still available NOS and are not too expensive. The plastic ones sold these days tend to leak light and fuzz from the light trap.

I have been buying 100' rolls, but I may grab a 400' eventually. It's different than C41 development only in the remjet removal and the operating temp for the chem (106f). In fact, people develop these films in c41 and claim to get good results (some claim better). I think it causes color shifts and increases contrast, removing one of the film's amazing qualities: it's latitude.

Kodak publishes the recipes for the whole process, and there are a few places online where people have broken down exactly where to get the chemistry. If anyone is interested in the route I went, I'll post it in detail. It's all available very easily. You can also buy kits from several places. They tend to be adaptions of the Kodak recipes, often opting to avoid the more dangerous chemicals (the Kodak stop bath uses sulfuric acid). One thing they also tend to avoid is the correct recipe for the remjet removal because it contains sodium hydroxide (lye). Whichever route you go, you DEFINITELY want the real deal for remjet removal because the weaker routes involve much more work and danger to the film. With the lye based remover, you just soak the film for 10' and wipe it a couple times at the end. Here's a post comparing methods that I found super helpful:

 

 

I'd bet that the 1g lye in the Kodak prebath is just to raise the pH. There may be other additives that would accomplish the same thing.

[ianman]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

If Fuji was sitting on old frozen stock

Must be uncomfortable 🤪

[Anbaric]

2 hours ago, Huss said:

Do you have any proof that Fuji is just thawing old stock film?  Or just making that up?  The logical answer is they are making it, but due to supply issues that everyone is seeing, not in quantities as in the past.  They then primarily distribute it in their major markets, which would be the US and Japan.

The fact that some Fuji 200 was rebranded Kodak for a short while implies that production has now resumed.  If Fuji was sitting on old frozen stock, they could have just used that.

Nobody has any proof of anything, and Fuji aren't talking. The UK + EU market is probably larger than the US market, but isn't getting supplied. We are, however, getting sporadic supplies of Portra, Ektar and Ultramax. The claim that Fuji may be working from stockpiled frozen material isn't mine, but neither is it (of course) from an official source. As one site put it before the pandemic: 'Unconfirmed rumors from not unreliable sources tell us that Fuji has stopped film production altogether; that they’re cold-storing a large amount of existing stock and simply fulfilling orders month to month.' Similar sources made claims about other Fuji emulsions, which turned out to be true; they were indeed discontinued not long afterwards. 400H was officially discontinued, yet for a while was easier to find in some markets than Superia. One reason given for ending its production was the difficulty in procuring the raw materials for the 4th layer; Superia was also a 4 layer emulsion, though it's unclear if it still is. In any case, with the only two new emulsions in recent years being outsourced to Ilford and Kodak, does it make commercial sense for Fuji to retain its coating capacity to make a couple of consumer films (at least one of which they can replace with a rebranded Kodak equivalent) and some low volume E6? The reappearance of Superia in the US market (especially in multipacks, which were supposedly discontinued) might signal a renaissance in film production (which we can all hope is true!), but they might just be using up what they have while it's still good enough to sell with the obligatory 2-year expiry date. I don't get any sense that Fuji are committed to the film market in the way the Kodak and Ilford are; they have a lot of other irons in the fire. How many rolls of Velvia would you bet that Fuji will still be in the film manufacturing business 2, 3 or 5 years from now?

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[Huss]

18 minutes ago, Anbaric said:

Nobody has any proof of anything, and Fuji aren't talking. The UK + EU market is probably larger than the US market, but isn't getting supplied. We are, however, getting sporadic supplies of Portra, Ektar and Ultramax. The claim that Fuji may be working from stockpiled frozen material isn't mine, but neither is it (of course) from an official source. As one site put it before the pandemic: 'Unconfirmed rumors from not unreliable sources tell us that Fuji has stopped film production altogether; that they’re cold-storing a large amount of existing stock and simply fulfilling orders month to month.' Similar sources made claims about other Fuji emulsions, which turned out to be true; they were indeed discontinued not long afterwards. 400H was officially discontinued, yet for a while was easier to find in some markets than Superia. One reason given for ending its production was the difficulty in procuring the raw materials for the 4th layer; Superia was also a 4 layer emulsion, though it's unclear if it still is. In any case, with the only two new emulsions in recent years being outsourced to Ilford and Kodak, does it make commercial sense for Fuji to retain its coating capacity to make a couple of consumer films (at least one of which they can replace with a rebranded Kodak equivalent) and some low volume E6? The reappearance of Superia in the US market (especially in multipacks, which were supposedly discontinued) might signal a renaissance in film production (which we can all hope is true!), but they might just be using up what they have while it's still good enough to sell with the obligatory 2-year expiry date. I don't get any sense that Fuji are committed to the film market in the way the Kodak and Ilford are; they have a lot of other irons in the fire. How many rolls of Velvia would you bet that Fuji will still be in the film manufacturing business 2, 3 or 5 years from now?

Doesn't make sense because if Fuji had film in cold storage, why would they use Kodak for a short while to provide their 200 film?  They would just use what they had in cold storage.

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[quietglow]

2 hours ago, oldwino said:

I'd bet that the 1g lye in the Kodak prebath is just to raise the pH. There may be other additives that would accomplish the same thing.

No doubt. I'd made some rodinal last year and still had the lye on hand (well, hopefully not, but on the shelf anyway). All the  ECN2 kits I found basically use the same formula and just omit the lye. All the kits have the material disclosure sheet, so you can check what they're up to. They also all deviate from Kodak by using ascetic acid for stop bath instead of sulfuric. The endless font of info "Photo Engineer" on Photrio warned that this could result in color shift and that Kodak would not have used sulfuric if they could have avoided it. I'm fine handling lye, but decided not to delve into high molar acid. Vinegar has worked great so far, and if it's causing a color shift, I must like where it's shifting to!

[Anbaric]

36 minutes ago, Huss said:

Doesn't make sense because if Fuji had film in cold storage, why would they use Kodak for a short while to provide their 200 film?  They would just use what they had in cold storage.

Depends if they had the capacity for the (wonderfully named!) 'confectioning' process at the time, turning bulk film into packaged rolls. We do know that whatever production facilities Fuji have were mothballed early in the pandemic. Presumably these are once again in operation. The Kodak stuff appeared less than a year ago, and we may not have seen the last of it. Maybe this is the future of consumer colour film as far as Fuji is concerned (just as Ilford-made Acros is the future of their B&W), and we'll see UltraMax (or something) branded as Fuji 400. Personally, if I were in the US (where I believe large freezers are common) I'd be stocking up with Superia just in case. But I hope the rumours are wrong, because a poorly supplied monopoly is no good for anyone (and Superia is superior to UltraMax!).

Edited November 11, 2022 by Anbaric

[oldwino]

3 minutes ago, quietglow said:

No doubt. I'd made some rodinal last year and still had the lye on hand (well, hopefully not, but on the shelf anyway). All the  ECN2 kits I found basically use the same formula and just omit the lye. All the kits have the material disclosure sheet, so you can check what they're up to. They also all deviate from Kodak by using ascetic acid for stop bath instead of sulfuric. The endless font of info "Photo Engineer" on Photrio warned that this could result in color shift and that Kodak would not have used sulfuric if they could have avoided it. I'm fine handling lye, but decided not to delve into high molar acid. Vinegar has worked great so far, and if it's causing a color shift, I must like where it's shifting to!

I've got some Sodium Percarbonate that would accomplish the pH shift, but it also is an oxygen bleach...not sure if that would be a help or not. 

[John Robinson]

In the UK at present it seems (with some exceptions) that you can have any C41 35mm emulsion that you want provided it is Ilford XP2 (or look at some dodgy deals on eBay).  For 35mm colour it is a choice of Cinestill (expensive) or Vision3 (less expensive) with expensive or complicated home processing.  Lots of dealers "waiting for stock" of Fuji or Kodak (some very expensive Portra showing up occasionally).  For bulk-loading it is XP2 or Vision3 (reasonable to very economical depending how much you buy).  120 holding up better.