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Confused? I am.


andybarton

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2 minutes ago, derleicaman said:

We usually put the issue up online when it has gone to press. With 55-2, I just found out that it was several weeks late because of a problem with the covers. This is the first time this has happened, and usually we have no problems getting the print issues out.

55-2 is not the black cover with the new logo. It has a photo taken somewhere in Asia on the cover and has been on the website for some time. I thought that I had got a copy of that some time back, but the latest I can find is 55-1. Maybe I have been imagining that the version on the website is the print version and it will arrive next week. The issue is not when they have been sent from the US, but what happens with bulk postage in Europe which can be arbitraged through the cheapest available route. You can get if from Switzerland one month and Turkey the next. I once had a subscription with a British publication, which is now totally online. I would often get my subscription copy 3 or 4 weeks after it was available in the shops because of that postal arbitrage nonsense. This type of thing won't be visible to people in the US unless they order magazines from Europe.

William 

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I am glad to see this has sparked so much conversation!  Great thoughts and comments.  I am also glad that we have so many people around the world interested in Leica cameras and taking photographs that we have two very old and successful groups that focus on our passion. Ultimately, each society’s success is driven by those members that contribute. @derleicaman has been a tremendous part of LSI in soliciting and providing content that is so much fun to read. While I am not a member of the UK society I should join and see what it is about. What I do know is that I have made international friends as a result of LSI and I have furthered my love of photography. Cheers!

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6 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

I am glad to see this has sparked so much conversation!  Great thoughts and comments.  I am also glad that we have so many people around the world interested in Leica cameras and taking photographs that we have two very old and successful groups that focus on our passion. Ultimately, each society’s success is driven by those members that contribute. @derleicaman has been a tremendous part of LSI in soliciting and providing content that is so much fun to read. While I am not a member of the UK society I should join and see what it is about. What I do know is that I have made international friends as a result of LSI and I have furthered my love of photography. Cheers!

David, The Leica Society, based in the UK, has members from many different countries around the world, but it is a smaller organisation than LSI. I am sure that you would enjoy being a member. I regard organisations, travel and trade etc as being international, but not people. People are people no matter where they come from and photographic and camera societies should work to that ethic. I have been invited to join the German Leica Historica Society on a number of occasions and the only thing that has stopped me is the fact that I do not speak German. The German Society's magazine is called VIDOM, after the early Leica viewfinder of that name, and it is of superb quality. They have, on occasion, taken articles from English and translated them into German. I know one prominent and long standing member of both TLS and LSI who has had an article on Leica projectors published in German in VIDOM.

It's a big world out there for Leica fans and we should embrace it in all its forms.

William 

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On 11/4/2022 at 2:35 PM, ianman said:

I had a look at the actual LSI site rather searching. There’s not much actual information there.

I thought the same.

 I get the impression that LSI and TLS are mainly concerned with collecting and Leica history.  I'm more interested in learning about photographers who use Leica cameras and seeing their work rather than what they own.

Only one way to find out, I'm willing to give both a groups try and make a decision about renewal later on.

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On 11/6/2022 at 4:24 AM, Ouroboros said:

I thought the same.

 I get the impression that LSI and TLS are mainly concerned with collecting and Leica history.  I'm more interested in learning about photographers who use Leica cameras and seeing their work rather than what they own.

Only one way to find out, I'm willing to give both a groups try and make a decision about renewal later on.

We're happy to have you. One reason we did the name change is that we offer much more than "history" at Leica Society International, so we dropped the "H" in the name and acronym.

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3 hours ago, bradhusick said:

We're happy to have you. One reason we did the name change is that we offer much more than "history" at Leica Society International, so we dropped the "H" in the name and acronym.

Thanks for the clarification @bradhusick:) 

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14 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

Thanks for the clarification @bradhusick:) 

The LSI is a 'broad church'. While I am best known around here as a collector, for which I don't apologise, the Dublin Conference of LSI, which I organised and chaired, was largely about photography. Among our speakers we only had one session (from Leitz Auction) which related to history and collecting. Among the other speakers we had 

A former winner of the World Press Photographer Award

An Oskar Barnack Award Winner

Two photographers who were shortlisted for the Taylor Wessing Award, one a Guardian Photographer and Leica Ambassador and the other a tutor with the Leica Akademie

We had a renowned Irish photographer who has used Leicas for over 40 years and who spoke for the first time ever about his photography. This event was at the Photo Museum Ireland (the Irish equivalent of the Photographers' Gallery in London ) where I am the chairperson. My involvement in photography is a lot broader than is evident on this forum.

We also presented our Annual Grant to a Polish Photographer living in Italy - the judging panel for that included Peter Turnley, Maggie Steber and the late Eamonn McCabe. The grant was supplemented by a Leica M10 R+lens provided by Leica USA. 

In addition, we had talks from Stefan Daniel about the current Leica range and from Peter Karbe on APO lenses and their development. 

Of course, we had a social side with a themed photo walk in Dublin, a visit to Guinness and a banquet.

I am sure that most Leica fans would find something to enjoy in all of that.

William 

Edited by willeica
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Let's see if I understand what has happened. A small subset of the society – those with the funds and spare time that allowed them to attend the Dublin meeting – took it upon themselves to change the society's name without consulting the other members?

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22 minutes ago, roydonian said:

those with the funds and spare time that allowed them to attend the Dublin meeting

I can see why you say that, but I think it is more accurate to say the 'new' name etc was launched at the Dublin meeting, rather than 'voted' on. I guess the Elected Directors, that the members did and do vote for, made the decision on our behalf, and it is within their gift to do so.

Whether you agree with the change or not, I think we have to accept it was made with a genuine and sincere rationale to future proof the organisation. Personally I have no problem with it and think it will cause no issues for the UK Society. However, I appreciate you have been a member of the 'LHSA' for a lot longer than me.

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1 hour ago, willeica said:

The LSI is a 'broad church'. While I am best known around here as a collector, for which I don't apologise, the Dublin Conference of LSI, which I organised and chaired, was largely about photography. Among our speakers we only had one session (from Leitz Auction) which related to history and collecting. Among the other speakers we had 

A former winner of the World Press Photographer Award

An Oskar Barnack Award Winner

Two photographers who were shortlisted for the Taylor Wessing Award, one a Guardian Photographer and Leica Ambassador and the other a tutor with the Leica Akademie

We had a renowned Irish photographer who has used Leicas for over 40 years and who spoke for the first time ever about his photography. This event was at the Photo Museum Ireland (the Irish equivalent of the Photographers' Gallery in London ) where I am the chairperson. My involvement in photography is a lot broader than is evident on this forum.

We also presented our Annual Grant to a Polish Photographer living in Italy - the judging panel for that included Peter Turnley, Maggie Steber and the late Eamonn McCabe. The grant was supplemented by a Leica M10 R+lens provided by Leica USA. 

In addition, we had talks from Stefan Daniel about the current Leica range and from Peter Karbe on APO lenses and their development. 

Of course, we had a social side with a themed photo walk in Dublin, a visit to Guinness and a banquet.

I am sure that most Leica fans would find something to enjoy in all of that.

William 

Collecting is obviously your interest and if that's what you do and enjoy, I have no issues with that. 

As for the rest, the spread of interest you describe at the Conference seems to be more varied (to me) than I was expecting and more in line with my own interests, so thanks for the above.

With no axe to grind, I've joined both Leica Societies.   

Edited by Ouroboros
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3 hours ago, roydonian said:

Let's see if I understand what has happened. A small subset of the society – those with the funds and spare time that allowed them to attend the Dublin meeting – took it upon themselves to change the society's name without consulting the other members?

It was before the AGM and no one raised any objections. As for funds and spare time, that is always the case when it comes to conferences. The Leica Society also incorporates its AGM into its conferences and I have heard no objections about that. If I don’t attend the conference then I cannot participate in the AGM. It is likewise the same with the PCCGB. I attended its AGM for the first time ever in Poole in Dorset recently because I was also speaking at that conference - the topic was ‘Unusual Leicas’ . What has been removed from the LSI title are initials for ‘America’ and ‘Historic’ to more accurately reflect the nature of the organisation today. The order of words was changed to put Leica up front as I have described already.  

William 
 

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3 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

Collecting is obviously your interest and if that's what you do and enjoy, I have no issues with that. 

As for the rest, the spread of interest you describe at the Conference seems to be more varied (to me) than I was expecting and more in line with my own interests, so thanks for the above.

With no axe to grind, I've joined both Leica Societies.   

I am involved in many aspects of photography and I chair the largest photographic gallery in my country. I was very anxious to ensure that the LSI conference in Dublin would be as much about photography as about cameras and that it would also reflect the international nature of the organisation. I believe we succeeded on both counts. I also wanted to show some Irish photography because of the location, but not to drown the conference in that either. Balancing a conference agenda is by no means an easy task and we had more people offering to present than we could actually take, which is always a good sign when organising a conference. 

William

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3 hours ago, willeica said:

I am involved in many aspects of photography and I chair the largest photographic gallery in my country. I was very anxious to ensure that the LSI conference in Dublin would be as much about photography as about cameras and that it would also reflect the international nature of the organisation. I believe we succeeded on both counts. I also wanted to show some Irish photography because of the location, but not to drown the conference in that either. Balancing a conference agenda is by no means an easy task and we had more people offering to present than we could actually take, which is always a good sign when organising a conference. 

William

I'm no stranger to this myself; as a past President of the Master Photographers Association and a former Director of MPA and a Regional Organiser I have been involved in arranging numerous Regional, National and International photographic events during my career in the professional industry, also a speaker at many and Chairing meetings, so I understand the work that goes into making these things a success.

OK, it's looking good so far and encouraging that the Conference was a success.  

 

Edited by Ouroboros
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On 11/8/2022 at 5:48 AM, roydonian said:

Let's see if I understand what has happened. A small subset of the society – those with the funds and spare time that allowed them to attend the Dublin meeting – took it upon themselves to change the society's name without consulting the other members?

I want to be clear here for history and to be sure that what we do as a United States non-profit (501c3 organization) is transparent to all.  The Leica Society International had a branding committee made up of members that spent about a year developing a branding logo and mission statement. This branding committee had members from different countries. The branding committee brought it’s results to the entire board of directors that reviewed the work, asked questions and made suggestions for changes.  The board of directors is also made up of international members. The committee spent additional time reviewing the requested changes and made adjustments to their initial proposal.  The board then reviewed the changes and voted to approve the end result.  This is a process  any good organization would follow that is formed under United States law.

The announcement to members was made first in Dublin.  Those members that could attend were able to hear the story first.  Honestly, I know many of our members that lived a reasonable distance from Dublin enjoyed attending a meeting that was close to home.  After the announcement at our in-person meeting, we made the change to our media and wrote some extensive articles in the Viewfinder for all our membership to read about.

We have had overwhelming support and positive comments from our membership, which is who we serve.  I am truly excited about our direction and our focus on all things to enhance each members personal photographic journey and help move forward our individual witness to what is going on around us.  For anyone that wants to enjoy being part of the Leica Society International, or wants to contribute, we welcome you from where ever in the world you live.

Thank you again for such engaging conversation here.

Edited by davidmknoble
Clarification.
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This description of a process involving a branding committee and board of directors makes me wonder how what was then the Leica Historical Society here in the UK made do with just a single committee (there were about eight of us, if my memory is correct), and without a mission statement.

The point I was trying to make earlier was that renaming the LHSA was an important step, so a case could have been made for allowing the entire membership to vote on the proposed change. There must be many who joined what was then the Leica Historical Society of America (to which I was recruited almost quarter of a century ago by the late Sal DiMarco), and who still regard the society as the LHSA, but will feel no loyalty to a 'Leica Society International'.

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@roydonian, an interesting perspective.  Certainly a case could be made to let the entire membership vote on the process as could a case be made that the executive committee could just create it and make a decision.  The larger point is that both the UK society and the former LHSA have changed names multiple times in the history of the organizations.  It was time and an inclusive process was used that kept ties to the old name.  The most important issue at hand is that the old LHSA, now LSI is focused on much more than “history” and “America” and we need people to be aware of that.

These things all take time to digest and, in this case, it is an evolution instead of a revolution.  Thanks for the comments!

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On 11/9/2022 at 12:15 PM, davidmknoble said:

international members

 Living in Ireland, to me US members are 'international' as are UK members. We could all appropriate the famous 'Life of Brian' meme  (ie 'we are all international') on this until someone says " I'm not". I think it is time to get past the concept of national boundaries when it comes to the membership of a Leica or any other kind of photographic society. It is a global market and photography is for the world. Language can be a boundary as I have mentioned already in the context of the German Society, which I was invited to join, but we can work on that. The various Leica websites around the world are in many different languages. I think I counted about a dozen different languages. The same applies to the Leica Akademie. Unlike the US where there is single entity there are about 9 separate Leica Akademies in Europe. 

 

On 11/9/2022 at 3:01 PM, roydonian said:

There must be many who joined what was then the Leica Historical Society of America (to which I was recruited almost quarter of a century ago by the late Sal DiMarco), and who still regard the society as the LHSA, but will feel no loyalty to a 'Leica Society International'.

I am sorry to hear that as I know that you have been a member for a long time. However, looking forward rather than looking back is what we should be doing. I can assure you that  a focus on Leica's history will remain on the society agenda, so long as I am around. Personally, I'm not particularly interested in logos and caps and that sort of thing, so long as the society is truly international and Leica's heritage remains on the agenda. This is not a football club, but rather a society of people with common interests. 

On 11/9/2022 at 9:29 PM, davidmknoble said:

The most important issue at hand is that the old LHSA, now LSI is focused on much more than “history” and “America” and we need people to be aware of that.

Agree 100% , David. Whatever about people who are not interested in anything that is not digital and other people who are not interested in anything that is not vintage or 'classic' or film, the Leica company embraces all of this, whether it is through Leica AG, Leica Stores, Leica Galeries, Leica Akademies, Leitz Auction ( now auctioning photos as well as cameras), Leitz Park and the Ernst Leitz Museum.

I hope I have said enough to indicate the broad-minded and forward looking thinking behind LSI.

William 

 

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On 11/2/2022 at 6:29 PM, willeica said:

It is easy to make fun of people who join such societies,

William 

On 11/2/2022 at 8:16 PM, Matlock said:

I don't quite understand your comment about people making fun of those who join such societies, who did you have in mind?

Peter

On 11/2/2022 at 8:17 PM, willeica said:

People who post Monty Python memes?

William 

 Someone’s changed their mind …

52 minutes ago, willeica said:

We could all appropriate the famous 'Life of Brian' meme  (ie 'we are all international') on this until someone says " I'm not".

William 

 

Just saying 😂🤣😂🤣

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  • andybarton changed the title to Confused? I am.

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