S3 Autofocus

[chriscove]

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I am a serious amateur/ semi professional who does a fair amount of portrait work for clients. In addition i sell fine art prints. I have sold all of my Fuji GFX 100S system because I never bounded with it.. I have been using my M11 as a primary camera and loving it. I use a Sony A9 when I need fast AF. 
 

I need a portrait camera. I have used a S 007 with the 120macro S and fell in love with the look and colors. The AF was slow , noisy 
 

Ok so here is my question (finally). Do users of the S3 find the AF adequate for moderate portrait work? The GFX one strong point was eye AF and multiple AF points.. I am worried about investing in this system with 1 AF point and slow AF.

Any advice would be helpful.  Chris 

[LeicaR10]

Chriscove,   First, I used the S system for decade plus with all the S cameras for my business. It was primarily for high end fine art landscape photography and occasional portrait photographs on an ad hoc basis.  My last S camera was the S3.  It was a great camera for my business niche.  I did not utilize nor buy the S3 for its AF capabilities, rather I would shoot manual focus.  The reason for me was the superb rendering of the S3 camera and S lenses.  When I would use the S3 for ad hoc portraits, my go to lens was the S100.  When I initially used the S120, it rendered quite well, but the S100 renders more like a M Noctilux 50 and M 50 Summilux.  My clients whom I did portraits, were thrilled with the S100 resulting photographs.  IMO, the S3 AF is good for portrait work. Some S photographers will tell you they have problems nailing focus with the S camera and S100.  Often that is a slight off function of the S100 needing to be tweaked by Leica Customer Care at Wetzlar.  Second, if you don't need 64 MPs and are inclined to a different camera, I  highly suggest a SL2 and SL 75 if money is a factor.  Plus there are many mint condition SL2/SL75 lenses available in the previously owned areana.  Many SL photographers really like that combo.  If you are so inclined for getting an exceptional camera/lens combo for portraits that can help you create really amazing photographs, you might consider a SL2 and M 75 Noctilux combo.  IMO this would be my first and best choice with the SL2.  The S3 has superb color, the red channel was tweaked by Leica and that really helped with skin tones. You have choices.  If you want more indepth help.  Just drop me a PM.  In the meantime, here are some photographs that you might find interesting.  I am certain other well intentioned forum members will chime in with their ideas too.  Hope this helps.  r/ Mark

Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=1382&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32  

PS.  Check out the S Image thread on the forum.  I think there are some very recent photographs taken by a member using the S3 and S100.  You have a good number of choices.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by LeicaR10

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[chriscove]

17 minutes ago, LeicaR10 said:

Chriscove,   First, I used the S system for decade plus with all the S cameras for my business. It was primarily for high end fine art landscape photography and occasional portrait photographs on an ad hoc basis.  My last S camera was the S3.  It was a great camera for my business niche.  I did not utilize nor buy the S3 for its AF capabilities, rather I would shoot manual focus.  The reason for me was the superb rendering of the S3 camera and S lenses.  When I would use the S3 for ad hoc portraits, my go to lens was the S100.  When I initially used the S120, it rendered quite well, but the S100 renders more like a M Noctilux 50 and M 50 Summilux.  My clients whom I did portraits, were thrilled with the S100 resulting photographs.  IMO, the S3 AF is good for portrait work. Some S photographers will tell you they have problems nailing focus with the S camera and S100.  Often that is a slight off function of the S100 needing to be tweaked by Leica Customer Care at Wetzlar.  Second, if you don't need 64 MPs and are inclined to a different camera, I  highly suggest a SL2 and SL 75 if money is a factor.  Plus there are many mint condition SL2/SL75 lenses available in the previously owned areana.  Many SL photographers really like that combo.  If you are so inclined for getting an exceptional camera/lens combo for portraits that can help you create really amazing photographs, you might consider a SL2 and M 75 Noctilux combo.  IMO this would be my first and best choice with the SL2.  The S3 has superb color, the red channel was tweaked by Leica and that really helped with skin tones. You have choices.  If you want more indepth help.  Just drop me a PM.  In the meantime, here are some photographs that you might find interesting.  I am certain other well intentioned forum members will chime in with their ideas too.  Hope this helps.  r/ Mark

Try:  https://onfotolife.com/lens_sample_photos?lens_id=1382&page=1&focal_min=0&focal_max=800&aperture_min=0&aperture_max=32  

PS.  Check out the S Image thread on the forum.  I think there are some very recent photographs taken by a member using the S3 and S100.  You have a good number of choices.  

Thanks so much for the advise and the link. These images just confirm that 75 Noct is a dream and I am really considering the SL2. I did PM the member who posted those amazing portraits with the S3. There is something special about the S3 files….

[Nick Guttridge]

Hi Chris,

I shoot portraits on the 007 with the 70mm CS and love it. You have to get used to focusing on the eye and then recomposing your composition. It's very quick for me and better than having confusing multiple focus points. I also have the 120mm and if that lens gets confused it will struggle for a while with focus. But generally it's pretty good and fast enough for me. I use the 120mm CS when I shoot dance at 1/1000th of a second. Then I am only focusing once and then I shoot without refocusing. So it's not a problem. 

I have used Fuji GFX and other medium format systems like the Phaseone, the Leica is so much better for me. Battery life is excellent also. I just hope this camera system continues to be supported by Leica in the future. Particularly with the batteries. As I want my camera to last 10 years +

[Stuart Richardson]

The AF between the S007 and S3 is functionally the same, so it is probably best if you make your decision based on that.

[chriscove]

3 hours ago, Nick Guttridge said:

Hi Chris,

I shoot portraits on the 007 with the 70mm CS and love it. You have to get used to focusing on the eye and then recomposing your composition. It's very quick for me and better than having confusing multiple focus points. I also have the 120mm and if that lens gets confused it will struggle for a while with focus. But generally it's pretty good and fast enough for me. I use the 120mm CS when I shoot dance at 1/1000th of a second. Then I am only focusing once and then I shoot without refocusing. So it's not a problem. 

I have used Fuji GFX and other medium format systems like the Phaseone, the Leica is so much better for me. Battery life is excellent also. I just hope this camera system continues to be supported by Leica in the future. Particularly with the batteries. As I want my camera to last 10 years +

Appreciate the advise!! It looks like 2025 for the new Leica Medium Format so we have some time. 

[BernardC]

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10 hours ago, chriscove said:

Ok so here is my question (finally). Do users of the S3 find the AF adequate for moderate portrait work? The GFX one strong point was eye AF and multiple AF points.. I am worried about investing in this system with 1 AF point and slow AF.

Is AF essential to you? I rarely use AF with the S, other than pressing the back joystick to get me "in the ball park." I can see the focus plane in the viewfinder, so it's a matter of muscle memory to tweak the focus ring toward one eye or the other. Often I'll just move my head (and camera) back and forth by a centimeter or two to fine-tune the focus. It's a different way of working, compared to other SLRs, and to the S, but the large viewfinder image makes it very practical. One added bonus is that the screen image isn't obscured by distracting blinking squares, like it is with 'intelligent" AF systems, so you can concentrate on your subject.

[chriscove]

21 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Is AF essential to you? I rarely use AF with the S, other than pressing the back joystick to get me "in the ball park." I can see the focus plane in the viewfinder, so it's a matter of muscle memory to tweak the focus ring toward one eye or the other. Often I'll just move my head (and camera) back and forth by a centimeter or two to fine-tune the focus. It's a different way of working, compared to other SLRs, and to the S, but the large viewfinder image makes it very practical. One added bonus is that the screen image isn't obscured by distracting blinking squares, like it is with 'intelligent" AF systems, so you can concentrate on your subject.

Very good point. I have been using the M11 for about 2 months since I sold the Fuji. I am very happy with the results in terms of output. I do miss the eye AF and continuous AF. I wonder if the SL2 AF is at least as good as the Fuji GFX. That said for years we had plenty of great shots with single focus spot….

[epines]

11 hours ago, chriscove said:

Ok so here is my question (finally). Do users of the S3 find the AF adequate for moderate portrait work? The GFX one strong point was eye AF and multiple AF points.. I am worried about investing in this system with 1 AF point and slow AF.

 

It depends what you mean by slow. Slower than a Nikon or Canon, yes. But definitely adequate for portrait work. I've been shooting portraits, lifestyle and conceptual work for about 20 years commercially, and I'm using the S3 as my main camera now. I love it and find its autofocus to be accurate and fairly quick. I'm actually often impressed at how quickly it moves the focus on its lenses, which are fairly large. Try to test it out before you go all in. What might feel totally adequate to me might feel slow to you, impossible to say. I also find its focusing accuracy to be better than the 007's. Some in this thread say they barely use AF, or just use it to get in the ballpark; that's not what I do at all. I rely on it completely. Hope that helps.

Ethan Pines

ethanpines.com

[chriscove]

1 hour ago, epines said:

It depends what you mean by slow. Slower than a Nikon or Canon, yes. But definitely adequate for portrait work. I've been shooting portraits, lifestyle and conceptual work for about 20 years commercially, and I'm using the S3 as my main camera now. I love it and find its autofocus to be accurate and fairly quick. I'm actually often impressed at how quickly it moves the focus on its lenses, which are fairly large. Try to test it out before you go all in. What might feel totally adequate to me might feel slow to you, impossible to say. I also find its focusing accuracy to be better than the 007's. Some in this thread say they barely use AF, or just use it to get in the ballpark; that's not what I do at all. I rely on it completely. Hope that helps.

Ethan Pines

ethanpines.com

Ethan,

 

Thanks… this is very helpful. In my short time with the 007 I just noticed the sound of the lens more than anything. Appreciate the insight.

[ynp]

5 hours ago, epines said:

What might feel totally adequate to me might feel slow to you, impossible to say. I also find its focusing accuracy to be better than the 007's.

I also noticed the improvements of accuracy with my S3, compared to the S2p I used before. 
And I have very little problem with auto focusing the S100mm. 

[Nick Guttridge]

Having used the Fuji GFX, yes that has quicker autofocus + stabilisation and eye recognition but overall I like my Leica S 007 much more. I found that if I did bursts of 20 images at a time the GFX just got too hot. It's doing alot, the EVF and the back screen. Battery runs down quite quickly and I had tethering issues. Perhaps it just got too hot, I was using the 50mp, they may have improved the heat issues with the 100mp.

I use my 007 specifically at 1/1000th of a second with CS lenses. Mostly the 120mm. I focus once on my subject with the button on the back and forget about focusing again until my dancers move position. Normally we have a spot on the floor which they have to stick roughly too. I use the cable release to forget about looking through the camera as it is pre set up. 

The 007 can shoot 1000 frames before I even need to think about putting a battery on charge (with battery grip). Which really helps in the studio. 007 never overheats and tethering to C1 is excellent. 

For me, I want I camera which I can ignore. Allowing me to put two eyes on the subject and avoid touching the 'thing' which actually takes the picture. There is a slight shutter delay when shooting with CS, I've got used to that. 

One day I will buy the S3, but the 007 is good for me, slightly faster. I don't need the extra resolution, but the refined colour would be nice.

Previously I have also used my Arca Swiss F Metric with Rodenstock glass, but it only syncs to 1/500th and I have to have an assistant cock the shutter for every shot. I'm still using copal shutter lenses. The forth image below is an interior shot with a dancer with this 'architectural set up'. I might go back to it. But it's abit complicated to do. 

One thing I would like is a longer shutter cable for the 007. Because being away from the camera is sometimes liberating. 

 

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[mgrayson3]

Lovely, Nick.

Here's another gentleman using the S(007) and 120/2.5 for photographing dancers. He has no AF complaints. Well, not many. Who says the S isn't an action camera?

Edited October 26, 2022 by mgrayson3

[chriscove]

3 hours ago, Nick Guttridge said:

Having used the Fuji GFX, yes that has quicker autofocus + stabilisation and eye recognition but overall I like my Leica S 007 much more. I found that if I did bursts of 20 images at a time the GFX just got too hot. It's doing alot, the EVF and the back screen. Battery runs down quite quickly and I had tethering issues. Perhaps it just got too hot, I was using the 50mp, they may have improved the heat issues with the 100mp.

I use my 007 specifically at 1/1000th of a second with CS lenses. Mostly the 120mm. I focus once on my subject with the button on the back and forget about focusing again until my dancers move position. Normally we have a spot on the floor which they have to stick roughly too. I use the cable release to forget about looking through the camera as it is pre set up. 

The 007 can shoot 1000 frames before I even need to think about putting a battery on charge (with battery grip). Which really helps in the studio. 007 never overheats and tethering to C1 is excellent. 

For me, I want I camera which I can ignore. Allowing me to put two eyes on the subject and avoid touching the 'thing' which actually takes the picture. There is a slight shutter delay when shooting with CS, I've got used to that. 

One day I will buy the S3, but the 007 is good for me, slightly faster. I don't need the extra resolution, but the refined colour would be nice.

Previously I have also used my Arca Swiss F Metric with Rodenstock glass, but it only syncs to 1/500th and I have to have an assistant cock the shutter for every shot. I'm still using copal shutter lenses. The forth image below is an interior shot with a dancer with this 'architectural set up'. I might go back to it. But it's abit complicated to do. 

One thing I would like is a longer shutter cable for the 007. Because being away from the camera is sometimes liberating. 

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

These are spectacular!! It’s very reassuring!

[jip]

The S3 doesn't focus much better/faster than the S007 did. I has never bothered me. 

[Pieter12]

Fast or even accurate AF is not necessary, depending on your style. LF photographers make fabulous portraits all the time.

[mdavidp]

Hi,

For me it's all about the sensor and the files.

I have an S3 and like the files better than the H 1dxll which I have and the F50s which I had.

You can see the difference.

Mike P

[chriscove]

Just to follow up this thread. I ended up getting a good deal on a mint SL2 and 75 Noctilux M. I figured this can hold me over till a mirrorless S4 comes along. I have a 24-90 coming for when I need AF. I will try this for a while. Here is one from my first job with this. I really enjoyed shooting with it and love the look and feel of it. This is straight out of camera with a single Profoto B10 with an Umbrella. Not sure it has the magic of S3 and 120 macro though.

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[mdavidp]

I disagree.

I found perfect focus with my S3.

And those files!

Michael P

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