New Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 comparisons

[MarkShot]

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Anyone prepped or seen a proper comparison put up online of the Oct 20 release of the new steel rim Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 Version 1 compared to the new SUMMILUX-M 35MM F/1.4 ASPH FLE II that was released in Sept?

[evikne]

I see no reason to compare these lenses as they are too different.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, MarkShot said:

Anyone prepped or seen a proper comparison put up online of the Oct 20 release of the new steel rim Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 Version 1 compared to the new SUMMILUX-M 35MM F/1.4 ASPH FLE II that was released in Sept?

Hopefully, they’re very different - I have the second version (commonly just referred to as the pre-asph), and it is very different to the FLE. 

The “steel rim” or v1 has two aspherical element and, despite its collector value and rarity, was a problem child. The v2 corrected some of those problems and was a very successful lens, though it’s soft as hell wide open (“Leica glow”, which I just consider a flaw) and has horrible veiling flare. But if you manage that, it is a charming little lens. 

The FLE is modern and all that, but its bokeh when used wide open isn’t anywhere near as nice as the v1 or v2, in my view. The nicest bokeh, in my view, is from other lenses like the 0.95/ 50 Noctilux, 50 Summilux ASPH, 35 & 50 APO Summicrons and 75 & 28 Summilux.

With so many choices of great lenses, not sure I understand the attraction of this Steel rim re-release. My first choice would be the 35 APO Summicron (I’ve turned down three as I have 2 lenses of this focal length - it’s only a matter of time before I succomb 😳). 

 

[SiggiGun]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Artin:

I don’t think any versions of this lens had any aspherical elements at all ?  The successor of this lens had 2 aspherical elements, known as double A 

You're right

[IkarusJohn]

56 minutes ago, Artin said:

The only real difference between V1.  Or steel rim and the V2. Which is usually the Canadian , is just that a steel rim, and the lens Coating. 
latter models of the V2 were made in Germany. And there is also a titanium version which was also made in Germany. 

Mine’s a German v2.  Never understood the steel rim thing.

[Ernstk]

1 hour ago, Artin said:

The only real difference between V1.  Or steel rim and the V2. Which is usually the Canadian , is just that a steel rim, and the lens Coating. 
latter models of the V2 were made in Germany. And there is also a titanium version which was also made in Germany. 

The v2 had a recomputed formula with two of the glass elements being changed.

Ernst

[grahamc]

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2 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

 

With so many choices of great lenses, not sure I understand the attraction of this Steel rim re-release.

 

Since v2 was the same optical design as v1 then this E46 “v3” version (heavily based on the v1) is presumably same optically as both of them - at least in design.  So as much as I love these pre-asph 35:1.4 lenses I am struggling to justify a purchase of the new one.    
 

I’m assuming that there will be small differences in rendering the same as my v2 differs from v1.   If I owned neither of these I would’ve purchased it already though, and the E46 is attractive as I always pair my v2 with a E46 50:1.4

Edited October 21, 2022 by grahamc

[Ernstk]

7 minutes ago, grahamc said:

Since v2 was the same optical formula as v1...

 

It wasn't. Some of the glass was different.

Ernst

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Hallo,

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[grahamc]

23 minutes ago, Ernstk said:

It wasn't. Some of the glass was different.

Ernst

True. Sorry I meant the optical design 

[corrected]

and that’s my point really, they will all differ. Realistically is the v3 going to be any closer to the v1 than the v2 was. After all it too was “just” an update with different glass 

So if I was to buy one it would be for the silver colour, E46 thread and the inevitably slightly different rendering to the ones I already have.   For me personally that’s probably not enough to justify it, but it does look like a beautiful package nonetheless. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by grahamc

[lct]

Difficult to see on Jono's pics but i wonder if the new steel rim has less coma than the original version.  A bit less veiling flare too? Would be great to have a bayonet vented hood but Cosina makes one already and its Nokton "SC" v2 has less coma and less flare while keeping some glow in a similar package as the steel rim for less money. It is not a collector though.

 

[grahamc]

52 minutes ago, lct said:

Difficult to see on Jono's pics but i wonder if the new steel rim has less coma than the original version.  A bit less veiling flare too? Would be great to have a bayonet vented hood but Cosina makes one already and its Nokton "SC" v2 has less coma and less flare while keeping some glow in a similar package as the steel rim for less money. It is not a collector though.

 

They certainly have to differ IMO and hope someone does a good comparison with a v1 .     The nay-sayer in me says that the modern version won't be able to achieve any closer rendering to the original than the v2 does, but who knows !   Or maybe closeness isn't the goal and it's a more modern interpretation - making the use of modern production technology, as Jono pointed out.   Until these questions become a bit clearer the closest similarities with the v1 specifically should be assumed to be the housing .  

It's interesting that reviews note the original OLLUX Hood will fit on the new version.   Optimistically, this may mean that the new E46 hood fits on the E41 original version and solves a lot of filter impracticalities for that.

Anyway I think I'm feeling a bit negative/confused about this reissue so I think I'll stop posting about it and use the time instead to think about whether I'll buy one or not.  For those who have already purchased - Enjoy and look forward to seeing the results !!  

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by grahamc

[evikne]

5 hours ago, MarkShot said:

Anyone prepped or seen a proper comparison put up online of the Oct 20 release of the new steel rim Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 Version 1 compared to the new SUMMILUX-M 35MM F/1.4 ASPH FLE II that was released in Sept?

It’s basically Leica's first and last 35/1.4 lens design. 60 years separate them (or about 50 if you consider that the FLE v.1 and v.2 are optically identical). If one were to compare them, it should have to be to look for similarities rather than differences.

[shirubadanieru]

11 hours ago, grahamc said:

They certainly have to differ IMO and hope someone does a good comparison with a v1 .     The nay-sayer in me says that the modern version won't be able to achieve any closer rendering to the original than the v2 does, but who knows !   Or maybe closeness isn't the goal and it's a more modern interpretation - making the use of modern production technology, as Jono pointed out.   Until these questions become a bit clearer the closest similarities with the v1 specifically should be assumed to be the housing .  

It's interesting that reviews note the original OLLUX Hood will fit on the new version.   Optimistically, this may mean that the new E46 hood fits on the E41 original version and solves a lot of filter impracticalities for that.

Anyway I think I'm feeling a bit negative/confused about this reissue so I think I'll stop posting about it and use the time instead to think about whether I'll buy one or not.  For those who have already purchased - Enjoy and look forward to seeing the results !!  

 

The original OLLUX should not fit because one is e41 the other is e46. Looking at the front of the lens this version seems much larger. This to me is the weirdest design choice. I know e41 is not a common filter size, but the summaron 28 e34 is not either…and they kept the design as close as possible to original. Seems weird to me they decided to make the lens fatter just to fit e46 filters. Looks much uglier from the front, and those 4 screws make it look like a prototype even. This is probably the first redesign that does not look as nice as the original lens. That being said I have not seen one in person so it’s hard to judge. Maybe it looks worse online than in reality. 

[adli]

12 hours ago, Ernstk said:

It wasn't. Some of the glass was different.

Ernst

 

If this is true, it explains the hype of the Steel Rim vs v2.

Then the big question is if the new v3 will mange to copy the "look" of the Steel Rim version, if it will be more like v2 or if it will be a third look?

If it is unable to copy the famous look/rendering of the Steel Rim, it will be a very steep price for a mediocre lens ☺️

[pgk]

12 hours ago, Ernstk said:

It wasn't. Some of the glass was different.

Ernst

Looking at the Leica website it refers to 'virtually unaltered' design implying that any alterations are minimal. I'd guess this is because they have had to substitute glass types due to the original glass being no longer in production anywhere?

Edited October 21, 2022 by pgk

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Hallo,

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[shirubadanieru]

13 minutes ago, adli said:

 

If this is true, it explains the hype of the Steel Rim vs v2.

Then the big question is if the new v3 will mange to copy the "look" of the Steel Rim version, if it will be more like v2 or if it will be a third look?

If it is unable to copy the famous look/rendering of the Steel Rim, it will be a very steep price for a mediocre lens ☺️

To be honest while the v1 (SR) and v2 pre-asph lux are different wide open, I’m pretty sure almost no one would be able to distinguish them from each other in most shots. I do prefer the SR over the v2, mostly because of the ergonomics and (to my eyes) a more interesting bokeh. From f2.8 they are the same. 

Regardless if this remake is closer to the SR or the pre-asph, in the end it will be close enough, because those lenses are very close to each other anyway from a rendering perspective. The v2 pre-asph costs now used the same as the new SR remake, and you get a better looking lens, new in box, that can attach filters without the hood…so even if it did render exactly like the v2 it would still be a better choice than a used v2 pre-asph I think

Edited October 21, 2022 by shirubadanieru

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[adli]

Still the original Steel Rim sells at a higher price than the v2. 

And it seems as the new Steel Rim will have a look or rendering more similar to the v2 as it can't have the glass from the original, so the name "Steel Rim" is kind of misleading. It is more a remake of the v2.

[Ernstk]

4 hours ago, adli said:

Still the original Steel Rim sells at a higher price than the v2. 

And it seems as the new Steel Rim will have a look or rendering more similar to the v2 as it can't have the glass from the original, so the name "Steel Rim" is kind of misleading. It is more a remake of the v2.

You've got it the wrong way around.

It can have the glass from the original steel rim. It can't have the lanthanum glass from the v2.

Ernst

[grahamc]

5 hours ago, adli said:

Still the original Steel Rim sells at a higher price than the v2. 

And it seems as the new Steel Rim will have a look or rendering more similar to the v2 as it can't have the glass from the original, so the name "Steel Rim" is kind of misleading. It is more a remake of the v2.

Maybe I’m a stickler for details but the E46 thread is enough to make this a v3 for me, noting that the optical design is the same in all 3.  The v1 and v2 were almost identical in barrel anyway aside from the steel rim, font type, hood type and filter type. All of those identifiers have now changed again apart from the steel rim .   The new version shares fonts with late (Germany) version 2’s and as Daniel pointed out a wider front. 
 

IMO its to be expected that all 3 are very close to each other in terms of the images they will produce but for given the decades that have passed in material and machinery surely it is expected they will have differences, albeit very minor ones. Again as Daniel points out all 3 will look the same to most users / observers. 

[grahamc]

6 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

The original OLLUX should not fit because one is e41 the other is e46. Looking at the front of the lens this version seems much larger. This to me is the weirdest design choice. I know e41 is not a common filter size, but the summaron 28 e34 is not either…and they kept the design as close as possible to original. Seems weird to me they decided to make the lens fatter just to fit e46 filters. Looks much uglier from the front, and those 4 screws make it look like a prototype even. This is probably the first redesign that does not look as nice as the original lens. That being said I have not seen one in person so it’s hard to judge. Maybe it looks worse online than in reality. 

Thanks 🙏 yes one reviewer stated that “the size is so similar to the original it even takes the original hood”.  I agree with you that must’ve been said in error 

If they were happy to change to a noticeably wider front then it may have been cool to also reduce the MFD to 0.7 as happened with v3 50:1.4 although we have to assume very good reason why the didn’t  
 

As a very happy v1 and v2 user I’m still confused where this fits in for me but maybe the conclusion is that it’s not supposed to.  As expected it looks like a beautiful lens and if I can justify the outlay I’ll be very keen to try it    I’ll decide after more user feedback here and comparison reviews I think 

Edited October 21, 2022 by grahamc