Reissue 35mm Summilux Pre-Asph V1 Steel Rim

[patrickcolpron]

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On 12/12/2023 at 10:28 AM, Smudgerer said:

Yes Patrick, quite a bit of work you put in here with the comparasion review, it does in my view need a serious edit / trim to cut it to half it's present length or less but that's your choice and perogative of course. 

I note you have some problems with it but personally I do like it's "imperfect look" wide open and it's 1 meter close focus limit has never bothered me.

...the re-issue tends to be the lens I pick up first. It's physical handling on a M is good for me and handling tends to be of prime importance to me with any lens, even more so than it's "look" at times..........I do wish that it came in black finish of course

Thank you, the length of the video is by design so I can cut it into 40 or more 1 minutes or less shorts. 

it is by far my favourite "modernish" Leica lens but there are other options out there that will suit people's need far better in my opinion. 

This week I finally used the APO 35 again and was strangely disappointed with how it feels in my hands compared to the new Steel Rim and left wondering how come I never noticed how terrible its rendering is compared to the New Steel Rim in the out of focus parts of the photo.

Today I am back with the version IV 35 Summicron ... It's black and has a very pleasing rendering 

 

On 12/12/2023 at 1:38 PM, maxpower said:

That video was long and I do think there was a lot of repetition, but I still enjoyed watching it and hearing about your experiences. It's hard for me to say whether I agree with the findings or not because I've never been fortunate enough to try an original copy, but I do agree it would've been nice if the reissue was closer to the original and the points you mention in this regard make a lot of sense to me. 

I'll never be able to justify the price of the original and shoot mostly digital so will continue enjoying my reissue, I'm very happy with it and sold my v2 to afford it. I had a short window to compare the two side by side and between my own v2 copy and the steel rim reissue I have I really preferred the reissue on my digital Ms. 

Thank you, I agree it i long by design - the repetition did not help and will need to go for the next one. No more receptions, it is what I did not like in my very fist video 4 years ago. 

The New Steel Rim remains my favourite "Modernish" Leica lens, yet there are better and more versatile options on the market yet if one shoots against the light - nothing beats it aside from the FLE which is not bad, yet the New Steel Rim has an edge for me as I prefer its flare and very low to no fringing. On digital it's great but I much prefer the lens barrel design of the original, with its smaller filter size, better and finer knurling at the base of the lens, etc. 

All original lenses I tested had better color rendering and were sharper. 

I had put the APO 35 back on my camera earlier this week and did not like its rendering as much as the New Steel Rim, now I ma back to the 35 Summicron version 4 ...  

[JoshuaR]

I'm about halfway through your video, and enjoying it very much. It is probably the most "Leica" video I've ever seen on YouTube. Walking around Paris, rambling repetitively about the minute differences between incredibly expensive lenses, expressing various dissatisfactions that only other people deep down the rabbit whole will understand.... You are articulating the kinds of thoughts I often think as I lay in bed, unable to sleep, mulling over my lens choices.

I haven't tried nearly as many lenses as you have, but I ended up replacing my modern 35mm lenses with the New Steel Rim. My "old" 35mm is a Summicron v3, which I feel is close enough to the V4s I've borrowed. I have various small annoyances with the New Steel Rim, but could never afford one of the originals anyway. And the bottom line for me is that it suits my tastes more than any other 35mm lens I've tried. 

Now back to your video....

Edited December 13, 2023 by JoshuaRothman

[patrickcolpron]

12 hours ago, JoshuaRothman said:

I'm about halfway through your video, and enjoying it very much. It is probably the most "Leica" video I've ever seen on YouTube. .... You are articulating the kinds of thoughts I often think as I lay in bed, unable to sleep, mulling over my lens choices.

I haven't tried nearly as many lenses as you have, but I ended up replacing my modern 35mm lenses with the New Steel Rim. My "old" 35mm is a Summicron v3, which I feel is close enough to the V4s I've borrowed. I have various small annoyances with the New Steel Rim, but could never afford one of the originals anyway. And the bottom line for me is that it suits my tastes more than any other 35mm lens I've tried. 

Thank you, greatly appreciated. Indeed it is the kin of thoughts which keep us up at night. 

I have had the chance to try and own quite a few Leica lenses, the deeper I go down this rabbit hole the more dissatisfied I am with modern lenses which used to astound me with their sharpness and clarity - I now find without character, this is why I do love the New Steel Rim but prefer the original version because it has a better rendering.

I'll repeat myself from previous responses, I picked up the APO 35 again this week and was dissatisfied with it's rendering, I am now back to the 35 Summicron V4 which is not as sharp as the APO and doesn't have as nice of a color rendition as the APO 35 yet - has a much more pleasing overall rendering and feels better in my hands than an APO 35.

This said, the Steel Rim, both now and old - do feel better in hands than all my other lenses. 

[Boojay]

Enjoyable ramble, both walking and talking, and congratulations on your accomplished backwards walk and talk - did you know it's very good for you health wise?😀

I agree, lot's of repeated points, enjoyable non the less.   I'm happy with the SR re-issue, it's now my only 35mm lens and I use on both digital and film, never having had the pleasure to try, and definitely no intention of investing in the original, it will do for me longterm.  I bought mine after regretting the sale of a V2 pre asph, and not liking the increased prices of used copies nor the condition of most.   Also not a fan of the FLE, mine now sold.  What I found most refreshing about your video was I don't think you once mentioned the Voigtlander, seems hard for most to talk about one without the other, plus I really enjoyed your streets of Paris images.  Thanks for the efforts.   

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Boojay

[patrickcolpron]

6 hours ago, Boojay said:

Enjoyable ramble, both walking and talking, and congratulations on your accomplished backwards walk and talk - did you know it's very good for you health wise?😀

I agree, lot's of repeated points, enjoyable non the less.   I'm happy with the SR re-issue, it's now my only 35mm lens and I use on both digital and film, never having had the pleasure to try, and definitely no intention of investing in the original, it will do for me longterm.  I bought mine after regretting the sale of a V2 pre asph, and not liking the increased prices of used copies nor the condition of most.   Also not a fan of the FLE, mine now sold.  What I found most refreshing about your video was I don't think you once mentioned the Voigtlander, seems hard for most to talk about one without the other, plus I really enjoyed your streets of Paris images.  Thanks for the efforts.   

 

Thank you greatly appreciated, yes a lot of repetitions. The backward walk and talk was my cameraman's idea and it worked well. 

The new reissue is a very enjoyable lens, first week really without using it aside from finishing a roll of Sri-X with it today. I kinda miss it but had to work at getting to re-learn my other lenses all over again. Strangely tonight I am going out with the FLE on an M10-Monochrom. 

I didn't see the point of adding a Voigtlander to the mix, not at all in the same caliber of lens versus the old and new Steel Rim plus I really don't have enough experience with Voigtlander lenses to say anything on them. 

[Smudgerer]

On 12/14/2023 at 8:50 AM, patrickcolpron said:

Thank you, greatly appreciated. Indeed it is the kin of thoughts which keep us up at night. 

I have had the chance to try and own quite a few Leica lenses, the deeper I go down this rabbit hole the more dissatisfied I am with modern lenses which used to astound me with their sharpness and clarity - I now find without character, this is why I do love the New Steel Rim but prefer the original version because it has a better rendering.

I'll repeat myself from previous responses, I picked up the APO 35 again this week and was dissatisfied with it's rendering, I am now back to the 35 Summicron V4 which is not as sharp as the APO and doesn't have as nice of a color rendition as the APO 35 yet - has a much more pleasing overall rendering and feels better in my hands than an APO 35.

This said, the Steel Rim, both now and old - do feel better in hands than all my other lenses. 

Bonjour Patrick, I apologise for being somewhat over critical regarding the length of your 35mm Summilux 1.4 re-issue piece, just watched it again and yes the editor in me can see where you can, as you said, chop it up into smaller segments and still not lose the core and the sense of your review, it is a good piece of work...........And perhaps I had a similar journey with the Summilux, there were two or three occasions after I purchased it that I was close to returning the lens but then it grew on me. Leica's lens-hood/ filter fiasco aside just the initial results I was getting from the lens when testing it out on the M10-R disappointed me and I couldn't figure out why, then I used it first on the M10-M and soon afterwards on a film M with Tri-X, THEN it made sense to me.........Anyway as I primarily image in B&W perhaps I should have just gone straight to those choices and left the M10-R napping, the Summilux 35 1.4 re-issue is a "keeper" now for me.

And then the APO 35, again I am with you on what you say, it's a lens that my Leica / Store dealer said that as a "35mm FL man" I would love it and he let me use one for a couple of weeks, so yes initially I loved the thing, primarily the compactness of it, ( I abhor large lenses on a M ), but the clinical results bored me, for what I like in my work it is too "clean", so the wallet was saved further unnecessary damage and the lens was returned with "thanks, but no thanks", plus for me in regards to colour rendering / look of my 35 Summilux FLE knocks the APO for six, ( not that I care too much for colour imaging.......but I also greatly prefer the FLE over the APO in B&W too ).

The 35 Nokton? It's not a lens that can easily be dismissed, for most users for whom the Summilux might be out of reach cost-wise it is a most excellent choice with performance in all respects quite close to the Summilux, handling wise I marginally prefer it to the Leica and it's lens-hood and filter mounting design is what Leica's should have been in the first place or at least elements combined into the "re-issue" as there's little sense I think in making a "re-issue" anything without encompassing some improvements if possible and not slavishly copy previous versions, warts and all..........But why didn't Leica make the lens available in Black too?

Edited December 15, 2023 by Smudgerer

[patrickcolpron]

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19 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Bonjour Patrick, I apologise for being somewhat over critical regarding the length of your 35mm Summilux 1.4 re-issue piece, just watched it again and yes the editor in me can see where you can, as you said, chop it up into smaller segments and still not lose the core and the sense of your review, it is a good piece of work...........And perhaps I had a similar journey with the Summilux, there were two or three occasions after I purchased it that I was close to returning the lens but then it grew on me. Leica's lens-hood/ filter fiasco aside just the initial results I was getting from the lens when testing it out on the M10-R disappointed me and I couldn't figure out why, then I used it first on the M10-M and soon afterwards on a film M with Tri-X, THEN it made sense to me.........Anyway as I primarily image in B&W perhaps I should have just gone straight to those choices and left the M10-R napping, the Summilux 35 1.4 re-issue is a "keeper" now for me.

And then the APO 35, again I am with you on what you say, it's a lens that my Leica / Store dealer said that as a "35mm FL man" I would love it and he let me use one for a couple of weeks, so yes initially I loved the thing, primarily the compactness of it, ( I abhor large lenses on a M ), but the clinical results bored me, for what I like in my work it is too "clean", so the wallet was saved further unnecessary damage and the lens was returned with "thanks, but no thanks", plus for me in regards to colour rendering / look of my 35 Summilux FLE knocks the APO for six, ( not that I care too much for colour imaging.......but I also greatly prefer the FLE over the APO in B&W too ).

The 35 Nokton? It's not a lens that can easily be dismissed, for most users for whom the Summilux might be out of reach cost-wise it is a most excellent choice with performance in all respects quite close to the Summilux, handling wise I marginally prefer it to the Leica and it's lens-hood and filter mounting design is what Leica's should have been in the first place or at least elements combined into the "re-issue" as there's little sense I think in making a "re-issue" anything without encompassing some improvements if possible and not slavishly copy previous versions, warts and all..........But why didn't Leica make the lens available in Black too?

No need to apologise, first I welcome critics as one can not grow with only positive feedback, I knew from the get go there were too many repetitions and it was too long yet I pushed to get it done and publish as is all the while thinking I should reshoot the entire thing. Anyhoo all of this to say, I actually welcome negative feedback on my work as that's the best feedback which allows me to get better for the next one, or the next project. It was an accurate critic, it's all good. And second I have thick skin otherwise I wouldn't put myself out there like this and surprisingly I am not getting as much "negativity" as I expected from this video, it is doing better than I thought in this regards.

For film, specifically black and white and also for color digital photos the new Steel Rim makes a whole lot of sense for its rendering and small size compared to other modern Leica lenses. This said for versatility, there are better options out there for most people who will reasonably purchased only one or two lenses at most.

The further address the APO 35 as my desert Island lens, I put it back up on my cameras this week, and sort fell out of love with it. The contrast and color rendition of the APO 35 is fantastic but its rendering is not the best. I strangely prefer the rendering of the 35 FLE over it as such the FLE is now on my M10-Monochrom. Yet I met a Swedish photographer this week in Paris, Payman Hazheer, who uses the APO 35 almost exclusively for his black and white photography, film and digital, @paymannen on Instagram, he makes wonderful street portraits. He said he loves the contrast of the APO 35 on black white film and with a digital black and white camera as well. Yes, it is clinically sharp, sharpness is overrated - yet it is always nice to have a subject in sharp focus as opposed to slightly out of focus or soft yet - saying this, I'll put the APO 35 back on for today's black and white photos. 

After one year of almost exclusively shooting M cameras with a Steel Rim lens, I am back to trying to find my feet to where I was before while having lost all my known frames of mind and preferences I had before. 

All of this to say I have no clue if the APO 35 is still my desert Island lens and I have a new found interest in the 35 FLE version I, the one I have. Who knows where this past year of trials and tribulations with the Steel Rim will lead me, definitely has me rethinking my Leica and other camera gear - where less is more and rendering is king. Knowing full well this is a personal preference which varies from one photographer to another. 

I will definitely experiment with Voitlanger lenses down the road, but at this time I am in the camp that the camera doesn't make any photo special, where the magic happens is in the lenses we use. I have found that Leica M lenses are at their best on Leica M cameras and I love the different flavours of Leica lenses rendering.

I wish Leica would have made a better lens hood for the new Steel Rim, one that holds more securely with a lens filter on, and also made available a black version of the Steel Rim, so many people's eyes on the street are attracted to the camera because of its shiny silver chrome lens... It is what it is.

Working on my next video, I wrote a script for a little over 2 years ago, taking critics into accounts, it will be shorter (yet still long for YouTube standards) with "wishfully" not one repetition.   

[JoshuaR]

Patrick, your video reminded me of this essay from The Online Photographer, which I reread every now and then when I start to do too much reading about lenses:

https://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/all-lens-tests-are-wrong.html

It’s very good. And it explains why lens reviews like yours—based on very long term use in a very particular and well-demonstrated artistic context—are the most useful.

[patrickcolpron]

19 minutes ago, JoshuaRothman said:

Patrick, your video reminded me of this essay from The Online Photographer, which I reread every now and then when I start to do too much reading about lenses:

https://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/all-lens-tests-are-wrong.html

It’s very good. And it explains why lens reviews like yours—based on very long term use in a very particular and well-demonstrated artistic context—are the most useful.

Thank you, greatly appreciated. I did not know about this article, just read it. It is full of gems and well worth reading every so often, bookmarked it.

"It can be fun to talk about lenses, pore over tests, look at MTF charts we may not even understand, compare single-number "scores" of various lenses—it just doesn't have much of anything to do with photographing." That is so true, hence the reason why I included so many photos I made with it this past year.

"The point is that when you take a complex description and boil it down to a single index, you have to decide subjectively how to give weight to various factors." It also comes down to - how good or bad any lens is comes down to the end user, each individual end user of the lens and again this too is on point "Once made, our choices evidently need to be defended, sometimes hotly. The product of choice is exalted; competing products are disparaged."

Yet this sums it up quite nicely, "Identical lenses can also be very different for different photographers, or in different situations."

This is one hundred percent right on the money: " ... "The only way to test a lens is to use it for a year. Everything else is a shortcut." I know I’m preaching to the converted here. But for those who perhaps haven’t worked all this out yet, stop fretting about lens tests and have confidence in yourself—look at pictures, and believe your eyes. " - Mike Johnson 

Thank you for the link, well worth reading

 

 

[Warton]

10 hours ago, patrickcolpron said:

Thank you, greatly appreciated. I did not know about this article, just read it. It is full of gems and well worth reading every so often, bookmarked it.

"It can be fun to talk about lenses, pore over tests, look at MTF charts we may not even understand, compare single-number "scores" of various lenses—it just doesn't have much of anything to do with photographing." That is so true, hence the reason why I included so many photos I made with it this past year.

"The point is that when you take a complex description and boil it down to a single index, you have to decide subjectively how to give weight to various factors." It also comes down to - how good or bad any lens is comes down to the end user, each individual end user of the lens and again this too is on point "Once made, our choices evidently need to be defended, sometimes hotly. The product of choice is exalted; competing products are disparaged."

Yet this sums it up quite nicely, "Identical lenses can also be very different for different photographers, or in different situations."

This is one hundred percent right on the money: " ... "The only way to test a lens is to use it for a year. Everything else is a shortcut." I know I’m preaching to the converted here. But for those who perhaps haven’t worked all this out yet, stop fretting about lens tests and have confidence in yourself—look at pictures, and believe your eyes. " - Mike Johnson 

Thank you for the link, well worth reading

 

 

Great video, Patrick. I enjoyed it. I am surprised that I even finished watching more than 1-hour long video.

I have been contemplating to acquire this lens for more than 1 year, but I haven't pulled trigger yet with very much doubt on whether if it's worth the price tag.

I have a rather modern Summilux 35 FLE and I am perfectly happy with it. That makes the addition of this lens even more nullified.

 

[patrickcolpron]

9 hours ago, Warton said:

Great video, Patrick. I enjoyed it. I am surprised that I even finished watching more than 1-hour long video.

I have been contemplating to acquire this lens for more than 1 year, but I haven't pulled trigger yet with very much doubt on whether if it's worth the price tag.

I have a rather modern Summilux 35 FLE and I am perfectly happy with it. That makes the addition of this lens even more nullified.

 

Thank you, greatly appreciated. I knew a few people were going to watch it all. I tried to make it as entertaining as possible with many change of scenery. 

With a modern 35 FLE it is difficult justifying adding this lens unless you are after a specific look, a modern FLE is more versatile.

I seldom shoot it wide open, for me the form factor and how it handles against the light are great reasons to use it. Now, after over a year of almost only using a Steel Rim, I am starting down the road of using all my other lenses, who knows where that will lead me. 

[Olaf_ZG]

21 hours ago, patrickcolpron said:

This is one hundred percent right on the money: " ... "The only way to test a lens is to use it for a year. Everything else is a shortcut." I know I’m preaching to the converted here. But for those who perhaps haven’t worked all this out yet, stop fretting about lens tests and have confidence in yourself—look at pictures, and believe your eyes. " - Mike Johnson 

Thank you for the link, well worth reading

 

 

@JoshuaRothman thanks for the link.

Three years ago I started my journey with Leica and bought ( and sold) too many lenses without even giving them a chance or really consider if I need them. GAS.

Time to slow done, and practice the quote.

[patrickcolpron]

1 hour ago, Olaf_ZG said:

@JoshuaRothman thanks for the link.

Three years ago I started my journey with Leica and bought ( and sold) too many lenses without even giving them a chance or really consider if I need them. GAS.

Time to slow done, and practice the quote.

Exactly !

55 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Our moms will never be able to tell the difference between the two when showing them the photos. No international contests will ever be won over the choice between one or the other. No Pulitzer will be given for the use of the better one. And that is all that matters.

Great effort for the video though, it is the intent that counts and the will to pull it through.

Thank you and absolutely true, no one will be able to tell the difference except that some of us will figuratively lose sleep over those differences.

Funny enough I do talk about the pulitzer prize in the video, if you don't get that video about the Steel Rim is not about the lens means - you only watched parts of the video, and that's perfectly fine, it is not about why a lens is better than the other - it is really about why you shouldn't buy any new lens or camera. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by patrickcolpron

[Smudgerer]

Actually what I do like about your video Patrick are the interesting and passionate comments it's provoked.............Good Forum stuff, better by far than "what bag?" discussions.

[patrickcolpron]

5 hours ago, Al Brown said:

I did see the entire video. I have noted every try and effort you made inside, from youtuber title references to trying to put everything together in an interesting, post-modern fashion, even you walking backwards and talking. All this is great. The video was NOT to long at all.

My only thoughts tied to the wording in my previous thread is that perhaps you should not have titled it the way you did. You used the steel rims to prove a certain point, although much of the video was a rant about the gear - you even stated yourself this is the point of the video. What disturbed me the most is how you pretty much failed (and this is CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, please) to demonstrate the gist of the pre-asph summilux in photos. All are bright, poppy, full of contrast bordering to HDR with heavy shadows and highlights equalized and many, many are not shot wide open, so they look like they were in fact photographed on any cheaper 35mm lens, be it Canon, Nikon, Sony etc. I do not think this is what the steel rim character - neither the old nor the new - is about in my book.

And as much as you speak about gear not being important, about some people focusing too much on the gear etc. - it is absolutely true people who do not know better buy the latest and greatest, but it takes a real master to PICK THE RIGHT GEAR for the right look (even if it is a s vintage as the original steel rim or the latest Hasselblad X lens) and this is where the gear MATTERS VERY, VERY MUCH. It is like repeating the mantra that money does not bring you happiness until you have enough to get anything you want to be happy.

Gear matters. Feelings matter. Vibes matter. Story matters. Everything in (GOOD) photography matters. It is only then that everything comes together into something that surpasses the sum of its parts. Leica Marketing Department once called this sum of its parts with an awesome German word "gestalt". They nailed it.

Once again thank you, I did try to show the unique character of the lens yet always tried to highlight the point uniqueness has a limit, at f/5.6 to be honest I find pretty al lenses to have a similar look on a digital camera, flat and sharp - and this where most of my photograph lies f/4 to f/5.6 where gear - a specific lens, with any digital camera more or less will provide similar results. 

The thumb nail is a click bait thumb nail, the intro should tell the viewer what he is getting into, everything is not what it seems. It is supposed to be ironic from beginning to end and also my intent was to take the viewer to an unexpected place, don't buy it - or anything new, as it will not help you become a better photographer. I may have failed there where - that part falls too far back into the video to make any sense. 

To this day, and as far back as I can remember - I always chased the best gear fully knowing and being open about the fact gear does not matter, feeling does, story does. Subject matter, matters more than technic, not sure I am talented enough to attempt to make everything come together which surpasses the sum of its parts. But this may be something to strive for these coming years.

It's too bad in these impersonal comments and replies we don't have the tone of the message just the words, sometimes (more often than not) things may be miss-understood or misinterpreted - same as with email messages and this is why in my work I go see people in person or call them up to make sure nothing is ever misinterpreted.... anyhoo I digressed and yes there are a lot of things I missed in this video, almost didn't share it but I did and saw it as a learning opportunity to use in order to make the next one better, if that makes any sense. 

[patrickcolpron]

4 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Actually what I do like about your video Patrick are the interesting and passionate comments it's provoked.............Good Forum stuff, better by far than "what bag?" discussions.

Thank you, greatly appreciated. And about "What bag?" I prefer no bag since the best way to miss a shot is to have one's camera in a camera bag 😉 I'd rather talk about photos, photographers and photography than the gear but gear gets views, so I insert my own personal photography meandering point of view in these gear videos. I may have to do a better job at that. 

[trisberg]

6 hours ago, patrickcolpron said:

almost didn't share it but I did and saw it as a learning opportunity to use in order to make the next one better

Well, I'm glad you did share it. I found it really enjoyable and interesting and I would agree with your criticism of the new SR. Watching the video made me go back and review my own results with the SR "re-issue". Stopped down it works great for me, but I'm not sure yet what to make of the results wide open. It's easy to avoid 1.4 on digital but it might come in handy with film in low light with limited ISO options. I'll have to shoot more film with it to get a feel for the results. I'm Sharing a couple of wide open shots on an M10 from Boston this summer.

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[weihsuan]

I'm fortunate to have in possession an original 206 steel rim. When I first held the re-issue lens in the Leica shop, I wasn't too pleased with the filter size (E46 vs E41), the infinity lock (feels rather flimsy to me) and the knurling (this especially). Glad to know I wasn't the only crazy one around. 

[grahamc]

Impossible to ignore the efforts and time this type of video must take, Patrick - thanks for putting together and sharing . 

Respectfully, a lot the test photography looked like hit and hope from 3 metres of random strangers doing nothing in particular.  Each to their own but in these type of shots perhaps the fall of the light or conditions of the day were more crucial to the end result than the batch of the lens.   I wonder if bench tests on a target can reveal more about a particular lens to draw comparison conclusions but your way sure was more entertaining. 

Regarding claims about particular batches, it's well known that in the production methods of the era these lens were produced, it was not possible to replicate exactly lens to lens the production standard the way it is nowadays, meaning their were slight variations.  It was common that photographers (or others fortunate enough to do so) would take several copies of a lens to test, and then finalise their purchase on the best performing one.  We can assume that these were from the same batches, and therefore that there was certainly performance variation between lenses of a batch.    Now some 60+ years later, testing one lens from a batch of 1100 surely doesn't constitute a statistically significant sample of the overall batch to draw conclusions from.  After all, if this difference between individual lenses (within a batch) existed at the time of production, now some 60 + years later imagine those differences exacerbated from use/abuse/service standards that an individual lens has undergone.  

So I doubt there was any significant production changes in 173,176 and 177 (all produced in 1960), and of more importance is probably having an originally-good (and subsequently well-serviced) copy.  It's feasible there could have been changes in production methods between those batches and the one produced 4 years later (206) of course.  Still, mythology abounds surrounding these batches and I've even read from a very credible source (sorry I can't share here) that a glass change occurred midway through batch 216 may in effect make the latter half of the batch as much the "first of the v2" as it is the "last of the v1".   It'd be interesting to test a very early v2 (infinity lock) against the final 216 steel rim batch to see if this holds any credibility.   Although now I come to think of it we'd need much more than 1 lens per sample to draw conclusions ... Could be an expensive exercise  

All this aside what is beyond doubt is that the original steel rim is a magnificent lens not only for the look it gives but but also the amazing build quality and pioneering history.   Thanks again for putting this video into the world - I completely agree with the comments regarding the remake when handled side by side with the original . 

Good luck on the quest for your dream copy and thanks very much again for a very fun vid ! 

Edited December 18, 2023 by grahamc

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[rtai]

11 hours ago, patrickcolpron said:

Thank you, greatly appreciated. And about "What bag?" I prefer no bag since the best way to miss a shot is to have one's camera in a camera bag 😉 I'd rather talk about photos, photographers and photography than the gear but gear gets views, so I insert my own personal photography meandering point of view in these gear videos. I may have to do a better job at that. 

The photography in your video is excellent. I am now a subscriber and look forward to new content. I don’t have the new or original SR but have two v2 pre-A Summilux Canadian and German. They are good enough for me.

Edited December 18, 2023 by rtai