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Firmware 1.108 NOT Available

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My M8 is taking black frames with absolutely nothing at all. It must be because I still have firmware 1.107. This is disastrous! What should I do??? I think I might faint...

 

Oh...wait. I left the lens cap on. Never mind.

 

 

Come on people...calm down! Chill. Go out and take some pictures. This blind speculation is just silly and pointless. Kind of like shooting an M8 with the lens cap on. If anything, wait for real information before passing judgment. "Contacting my solicitor..."

 

Whatever

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OK I've just seen Leica's email to M8 owners . . .

 

This was necessary because certain electronic parts were no longer available and had to be replaced.

 

So I suppose it comes down to whether or not people take Leica at their word. I have no reason not to.

 

As to why not let me as a user decide whether or not to install a firmware update NOT INTENDED for my camera? Hello, it makes no sense to install firmware not intended for your camera!

 

JMO.

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I hate to appear to be adding fuel to this fire BUT... one doesn't need to change firmware because a transistor changed. This has to be a significant hardware change. For a company to go to the expense of maintaining two versions of the firmware (packaged together) and to test both versions is very costly. A change of firmware could be as simple as drivers being changed for some interface components or as complex as the CPU(s) being changed and requiring different firmware. Until we see a dual firmware release, we can't be sure. I am leaning toward the latter since a driver firmware change would not usually require a completely different set of code but merely a change to the code instructing it on which driver to load during the installation process.

 

I think my concern and that of many others is that many of the strange behaviors and problems we have seen are not easily fixable in firmware, if at all, and would require a hardware correction. Understandably, if Leica has made this determination for themselves, they might chose to fix the hardware going forward to eliminate the problem. On the other hand, equally understandable, they may not want to have to do another recall to replace those components in every camera sold. Therefore, a good strategy would be to fix the problems going forward and knowing that many users are either unaware of certain issues, are more tolerant of those issues or have not experienced them for one reason or another, they would wait to only fix and change those cameras sent in for repair. A simple example would be the use of SDHC cards. Suppose they found that they cannot resolve getting SDHC to work correctly with just a firmware change but it requires a change to the hardware and the associated firmware. Many users won't care, but some might. Another example might be that a newer higher performance processor is available and some of the lag issues on start-up could be fixed by the new hardware but are not fixable on the existing hardware via firmware only. Some users may not care. Maybe it provides for the ability to keep the same performance but write 16 bit files instead of compressed 8 bit files, etc.

 

Granted, that there are many of you that would not care if any of these scenarios were true, I, however; would care. I can further assure you that I would have my camera updated or replaced. You might on the other hand just say that it takes great pictures and I will live with the problems/issues. Your choice!

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What happened is basically that some people around here got fed up with the One lense / 2 lense / 3 lense threads and they asked Leica to issue a new firmware so we could have something else to speak about !!!

 

:-))))

 

Eric

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John, Mark's post sounds more plausible than yours. Don't you think that if Leica had done something like that that they would not be selling it as a MkII? Or offering upgrades? Let's just start out by believing Leica's mail and give them credit for being forward in their customer relations.

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A simple example would be the use of SDHC cards. Suppose they found that they cannot resolve getting SDHC to work correctly with just a firmware change but it requires a change to the hardware and the associated firmware. Many users won't care, but some might. Another example might be that a newer higher performance processor is available and some of the lag issues on start-up could be fixed by the new hardware but are not fixable on the existing hardware via firmware only. Some users may not care. Maybe it provides for the ability to keep the same performance but write 16 bit files instead of compressed 8 bit files, etc.

Yeah, sure, they would update the hardware to add SDHC compatibility and a 16 bit option, but make it a point not to tell anyone, because otherwise, everyone would want the motherboard to be exchanged … And of course, nobody would ever find out about SDHC compatibility or 16 bit raw files … Does anybody believe this to be a likely scenario?

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Guest tummydoc

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlansing View Post

If there's no effect on the older M8, then why not make it available. To save my time? Let me make that decision myself....Or is there another reason

 

 

Because it makes no sense?

 

Surely the furor created by Leica's chosen approach proves that it would have indeed made sense, at least for this product and a large proportion of its market

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I hate to appear to be adding fuel to this fire BUT... one doesn't need to change firmware because a transistor changed. This has to be a significant hardware change. For a company to go to the expense of maintaining two versions of the firmware (packaged together) and to test both versions is very costly. A change of firmware could be as simple as drivers being changed for some interface components or as complex as the CPU(s) being changed and requiring different firmware. Until we see a dual firmware release, we can't be sure. I am leaning toward the latter since a driver firmware change would not usually require a completely different set of code but merely a change to the code instructing it on which driver to load during the installation process.

 

I think my concern and that of many others is that many of the strange behaviors and problems we have seen are not easily fixable in firmware, if at all, and would require a hardware correction. Understandably, if Leica has made this determination for themselves, they might chose to fix the hardware going forward to eliminate the problem. On the other hand, equally understandable, they may not want to have to do another recall to replace those components in every camera sold. Therefore, a good strategy would be to fix the problems going forward and knowing that many users are either unaware of certain issues, are more tolerant of those issues or have not experienced them for one reason or another, they would wait to only fix and change those cameras sent in for repair. A simple example would be the use of SDHC cards. Suppose they found that they cannot resolve getting SDHC to work correctly with just a firmware change but it requires a change to the hardware and the associated firmware. Many users won't care, but some might. Another example might be that a newer higher performance processor is available and some of the lag issues on start-up could be fixed by the new hardware but are not fixable on the existing hardware via firmware only. Some users may not care. Maybe it provides for the ability to keep the same performance but write 16 bit files instead of compressed 8 bit files, etc.

 

Granted, that there are many of you that would not care if any of these scenarios were true, I, however; would care. I can further assure you that I would have my camera updated or replaced. You might on the other hand just say that it takes great pictures and I will live with the problems/issues. Your choice!

 

Very nicely written but it is all pure speculation. I think what we need now are level heads until more REAL information is revealed.

 

I will happily join you in lighting the bonfire under Leica if what you say turns out to be true. FOR NOW, I trust Leica has acted in good faith and isn't trying to dupe us. They're just not as adept to the digital age and dealing with press releases as Canon or Nikon.

 

I think the key piece of information that wasn't properly conveyed by Leica is that future firmware updates will apply to ANY M8 and that there will not be separate firmware releases based on serial number sequences. If this holds to be true, then Mark is right and this is only a minor hardware change. If this isn't the case and they have separate firmware updates then I might be more skeptical like you.

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Mark,

If, as you speculate, the firmware change is small, then I would agree with your conclusion. On the other hand, if the firmware change is substantial, I would not. I obviously haven't seen the code so I don't know nor do I claim to know.

 

Having managed many software projects over the last 40 years, I do know that I fight like hell to keep from having to support multiple versions. Testing problems alone are huge issues and it would go a long way toward explaining why Leica has been so slow in producing upgrades. This hardware change has had to have been in the works for some time now if it has reached the production stage.

 

Michael,

 

Stranger things have happened. One thing I would bet money on and that is that Leica would not want to eat the cost of another recall. Of course a simple way to handle it would be for Leica to say, we replaced the following components made by company X with components made by company Y and these components perform the following functions in the camera and there is no difference in performance to the user. Then, any of us with technical knowledge could easily verify the statement, end of controversy.

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I've got only one comment to this thread....

 

Thank you Leica for the good comunication...I will not download the new version.

 

Now off to play with my kids and venture into Shawnee National forest for a shoot.

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Guest tummydoc
Mark,

If, as you speculate, the firmware change is small, then I would agree with your conclusion. On the other hand, if the firmware change is substantial, I would not...One thing I would bet money on and that is that Leica would not want to eat the cost of another recall. Of course a simple way to handle it would be for Leica to say, we replaced the following components made by company X with components made by company Y and these components perform the following functions in the camera and there is no difference in performance to the user. Then, any of us with technical knowledge could easily verify the statement, end of controversy.

 

Absolutely. Leica once again allowed a decision to be made that is coming round to bite them in the bum. At this point Leica had best issue a clarification, in concise terms that no-one can call vague or evasive or open to interpretation, that hardware changes do not offer a performance advantage over the cameras made before those changes. And hope that people believe them.

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All this is pure speculation, but I have proof positive there are

 

Note the frame selectors, obviously a huge difference...... so which have you got silver or black?, which is more common?. Which is worth more?. Which has better functionality?.

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Surely the furor created by Leica's chosen approach proves that it would have indeed made sense, at least for this product and a large proportion of its market

 

There is that.... But that raises the question how predictable this reaction was, RFF stays strangely silent and well, these conspiracy theories are a bit over the top imo.

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Perhaps someone should buy the camera and report back the differences.

 

I feel better about the price going up on the M8 than I do about the price going down on my IPhone.

 

In the meantime I am studying the differences between my D2 and the new D3. ;-)

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Hi,

Thank you Leica for the good comunication...I will not download the new version.
You didn't read carefully!

 

"Hence, this firmware version will not be available as a download on our homepage."

 

So you don't get even the chance to try to d/l it.

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Scene 1: The Analog Devices Sales Office

 

"Analog Devices, good morning"

"Leica Camera here, you remember the 30000 Analog to Digital Converters we bought from you?"

"Yes"

"We're sold out, we'd like 50000 more, please."

"Ah, there's a problem, we don't make that chip any more. We do have a newer version which is the same specification, costs $20 less but the data clock setup time is increased from 5 to 6 nS."

"That's no problem, we can change that in firmware. We'll take them! Just one problem..."

"What's that?"

"What do we tell people on the Leica User Forum?"

 

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Scene 1: The Analog Devices Sales Office

 

"Analog Devices, good morning"

"Leica Camera here, you remember the 30000 Analog to Digital Converters we bought from you?"

"Yes"

"We're sold out, we'd like 50000 more, please."

"Ah, there's a problem, we don't make that chip any more. We do have a newer version which is the same specification, costs $20 less but the data clock setup time is increased from 5 to 6 nS."

"That's no problem, we can change that in firmware. We'll take them! Just one problem..."

"What's that?"

"What do we tell people on the Leica User Forum?"

 

 

 

Mark,

 

When you're good you're good. That was a funny post and likely not far off the mark.

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Does anyone know if obsessive-complusive disorder is contagious, and if so, is there a cure? Also, can I sue the provider of the cure if it doesn't work?

 

Larry

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Here is a little test of trust and human psychology:

 

If you had the opportunity to exchange your M8 for the newer version for only the cost of shipping and you were told that there was no functional difference would you do it?

 

I would BECAUSE: Leica has a financial motive to NOT be completely honest. They could make the statement if it were true today but keeping their fingers crossed and knowing that with future firmware upgrades the statement would no longer be true. They could later state; "it was true when we said it." It is easier to trust when there is no financial motive to lie.

 

A simple computer analogy. Suppose you purchase a new Apple G5 computer and it comes with Mac OS. A few months later Apple releases a new computer that now uses Intel chips and runs a new version of Mac OS. Your two month old computer cannot run the new version of Mac OS but runs fine with the old version of Mac OS. Yes they had to change some computer chips and the newer chips work with the new software but not with the older software. Is this a new model or the same model computer with the chips changed?

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