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Firmware 1.108 NOT Available

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Clearly an over-reaction, Jaap. You're correct, it's illogical. But you saw the earlier reference, didn't you? Manuel told them he would buy only if they got a written statement from Leica that there was no 'version 2' coming. Leica sent that guarantee, so I can't blame them for feeling let down.

 

--HC

 

I can't tell if you're joking or not with this post.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Guest tummydoc

If, as Guy says and I have no reason to doubt him, version 1.108 works perfectly on exisiting cameras, making it available as a download would've had far less negative repercussion than telling the public more than they needed to know. Surely any one of us could have told that this sequence of events would start the rumour mills churning at top speed. Head-scratching threads pondering the non-existent changes between 1.107 and 1.108 (similar to those between 1.102 and 1.107) would have been preferable to speculation of a secret M8 MK-II. Once again, as with the magenta/IR issue, Leica's technical reputation is undermined by a poorly-thought-out management decision.

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Some are assuming that the change to the body is an improvement in the body, rather than just the substitution of one part source for another (necessitating a minor tweak in the firmware)

 

Very good point, Andy. And Guy is not the only person who has noticed no functional difference with 1.08. Though this may be hard for some to do, I'd recommend that people take the announcement at face value and get on with making pictures.

 

No, there will not need to be two different firmware versions from now on. Firmware will continue to be updated and it will continue to apply to M8s generally.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Sandy, it would probably be much healthier for all of us to return to discussing the inordinate value of serial numbers xxx thru xxx in version 3 of such and such a lens that was actually produced in Jena by those lens workers trained by Oskar himself.

 

It's amazing that people can go out and take such wonderful pix with this superb camera and then come back and complain about details. Imagine if the auto makers actually informed us of the changes like this that occur many times a day in vehicles in which we drive 70 or so miles an hour?

 

-- Or Boeing (600-plus miles an hour) -- [Pilot speaking: "sorry the blimthingy just failed. As you all know from reading the components substitution newsletter that Boeing publishes online, the part, number X-from-singapore-33-alternator-switch-mod-39.16, has replaced a (mostly) similar-and-not-too-critical-to-carbon-based-life-forms split valve that separates the exhaust feed from the cabin oxygen intake port. If you are coughing, please cover your mouth. We would return to our departure gate, but we're almost at the take-off point now and the traffic at this airport is such that it'll be faster to complete the flight and take care of the problem at our destination."]

 

Guy, got that 24 yet?

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The fact they feel the need to change component suppliers because of cost/availability/reliability issues is not a reason for anyone to talk to their solicitor unless it's to recommend the camera.

 

I agree.

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Well, one wonders is a solicitor knows how to take a picture.

 

Aren't they on the other side of that equation: One picture is worth a thousand words?

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You know, if there's a version revision in tomorrow's day, the light may not be right for lenses wider than 35mm.....

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If there's no effect on the older M8, then why not make it available. To save my time? Let me make that decision myself....Or is there another reason

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If there's no effect on the older M8, then why not make it available. To save my time? Let me make that decision myself....Or is there another reason

 

Yes, to save you time and hassle.

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Fortunately for all of us, Guy went to the trouble of verifying that the new firmware doesn't matter in the existing cameras.

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Yes, to save you time and hassle.

 

You don't think that this is a bigger hassle...then say another firmware which has a marginal improvement. Make it available, say it optimizes something...but doesn't really affect anything.

 

This could have "improved" the AWB in our cameras, very few people would have noticed and many more would have claimed improvements.

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What a strange thread.

 

If Leica have had to change a component it could be for any of three reasons:

(1) an improvement in performance;

(2) a change in cost;

(3) or lack of availability of the old part.

 

It seems to me that a number of folks are convinced -- or fearful -- that it's (1). But it seems just as likely it could be (2) or (3).

 

If in fact there is an improvement in performance, that is certainly to be expected is it not? The M8 has been out for nearly a year, if an incrementally improved M8 is coming through the pipeline, then kudos to Leica!

 

I can't really imagine that people would expect that Leica -- or any other manufacturer -- should replace components in older cameras as they are changed in newer versions.

 

If Leica says that this firmware update does not apply to *my* M8 I take them at their word.

 

But I for one would NOT want to install a firmware update that is not intended for my camera -- especially simply to up the number from 1.107 to 1.108.

 

That's my take. FWIW.

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You don't think that this is a bigger hassle...then say another firmware which has a marginal improvement. Make it available, say it optimizes something...but doesn't really affect anything.

 

This could have "improved" the AWB in our cameras, very few people would have noticed and many more would have claimed improvements.

 

 

Absolutely correct, and exactly what I said a few posts up...that even people outside Leica could've told them it would have been far less damaging to let people download it as long as it has no ill effect.

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If there's no effect on the older M8, then why not make it available. To save my time? Let me make that decision myself....Or is there another reason

 

Because it makes no sense?

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It is a nothing update folks . What it is, is cameras leaving the factory will have 1.108 on there camera's some parts are replaced and it is just an update for those parts so it has nothing to do with existing camera's. I actually loaded the beta on both my existing camera's to test and no changes to the camera's . Really i would call it a spec update so please don't read into it as anything else but that. There are no changes to be realized whatsoever on the performance of existing camera's in place today reason it is not a downloadable update. Best advice carry on and not too worry about it. This has nothing to do with a real downloadable firmware update that will make any user changes

 

 

Guy my original post has really nothing to do with firmware. It does have something to do with the changed parts in the newer M8's. What are those parts and why do they need a specific firmware change. What do they do and how they do it compared to the older Type 1 M8's that Leica has to write a different firmware for it.

I'm glad you have loaded it and it did not cause any problems, that is partially reassuring.

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Fortunately for all of us, Guy went to the trouble of verifying that the new firmware doesn't matter in the existing cameras.

 

Guy and a lot of other people.

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I think the real issue here is that whomever is translating the press release from German to English learned his/her writing style from reading Douglas Adams novels.

 

"The Vogon ships were huge as office blocks, silent as birds, and hung in the air in exactly the same way that bricks don't."

 

Wouldn't it have been simpler to say this:

"As of today, September 21, 2007, all Leica M8's shipped from the factory will be loaded with firmware version 1.108, due to the replacement of an electronic part used in the manufacture of the camera. All pre-existing M8's are not affected by this change and there is no need to upgrade from version 1.107 as there is no new functionality in the update. All future firmware updates will address all revisions of the camera."

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Is it possible that participants in this forum can air their concerns without being called trolls, for goodness sake.

It is the most infantile type of name-calling. Be polite or make a point worth making - it seems to me that Manuel has every right to feel that something is amiss in how he's been treated.

 

From time to time a reality check would be in order, I hope? Airing their "concerns"?

 

He's not been treated in any way - he's obsessive about what he wanted to hear from Leica (which is apparently a major concern to him - fair enough) and now Leica does something that he considers in breach with what they promised him. Personal matter between him and Leica, if you ask me.

 

Now, there is nothing like a M8 Mark II or M8.1 or whatever you want to call it - it's the same product, same features - it's probably not even a revision.

If Leica wouldn't have had to bring out 1.108, noone would have even noticed.

 

But we still have the OP, who decides to start a shitstorm in order to make his personal feud "valid" - and that, to me, is the prototype of a troll.

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Guy my original post has really nothing to do with firmware. It does have something to do with the changed parts in the newer M8's. What are those parts and why do they need a specific firmware change. What do they do and how they do it compared to the older Type 1 M8's that Leica has to write a different firmware for it.

I'm glad you have loaded it and it did not cause any problems, that is partially reassuring.

 

Ed, the chances are that what's changed is one of the chips - the other parts are sufficiently generic for a change not to be required. Anytime you use a chip, the manufacturer will make specific recommendations about how to use it, a host of detailed instructions on the timing of signals presented to the chip - take a look at the Kodak sensor specification and you get an idea. Sometimes, these instructions run to hundreds of pages. The Xilinx FPGA used in the M8 is brain-numbingly complex, for example.

 

It's perfectly possible that a new revision of the chip - and chip vendors have their own engineering change levels as well - has resulted in a change to those recommended operating conditions. It may have nothing to do with performance, more a change to recommended use with the new silicon. I've been in situtations where a change to a chip has, for example, required the timing of clock signals to be adjusted fractionally.

 

I know there's a thought this is some huge conspiracy. All I can say to those who think this is that this sort of change is business as usual in the electronics industry.

 

I have 3 M8s and I'm not worried in the least.

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