stunsworth Posted September 22, 2007 Share #241 Posted September 22, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 22, 2007 Posted September 22, 2007 Hi stunsworth, Take a look here Firmware 1.108 NOT Available. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ho_co Posted September 22, 2007 Share #242 Posted September 22, 2007 (I just found out that smileys count as images, with a max of 5! I had no idea. I had to recycle one of yours to get mine to take.) Carsten! You're allowed 5 images? I'm only allowed 4! Some kind of prejudice in the software? And you were allowed to recycle a smiley? Does that mean I might get a used one? There's room for at least two legal procedures here--discrimination and used vs new. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 22, 2007 Share #243 Posted September 22, 2007 ....there is always a lawyer that needs a reputation lift and willing to take a gamble..........just as in any other profession, the hope of winning One thing about lawyers... They lose on average about 50% of their actions on account of other lawyers winning 50% of their actions, but they charge for 100%... What a nice way of playing both sides of the table... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 22, 2007 Share #244 Posted September 22, 2007 I thought this thread was locked. Did someone steal the key Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted September 22, 2007 Share #245 Posted September 22, 2007 I'm still pissed about Leica putting out an M2 AFTER the M3...I mean HEY, I might have WANTED a 35mm finder in my M3 and now they just made it totally obsolete. I'll be drafting a letter to MY solicitor in due haste! I won't even get STARTED on the whole Leicaflex/Leicaflex SL thing, which still chaps my butt! I'm telling you all this is just a plot to make us buy more cameras! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thpeters Posted September 23, 2007 Share #246 Posted September 23, 2007 If all M8 complainers now taken pictures this weekend and put it in the photoform then there is maybe a chance we see lot of good work. Theo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 23, 2007 Share #247 Posted September 23, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I thought this thread was locked. Did someone steal the key Why should it be locked? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 23, 2007 Share #248 Posted September 23, 2007 It was locked for a while and is now unlocked again. Seems to have calmed things down nicely... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 23, 2007 Share #249 Posted September 23, 2007 I'm still not sure why it was locked. Sure there was a lot of messages of varying degrees of sensibility, but if silly messages weren't allowed where would the internet be? <grin> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted September 24, 2007 Share #250 Posted September 24, 2007 Hey, could we _pretend_ that it's locked? Or is that cheating? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddawn Posted September 24, 2007 Share #251 Posted September 24, 2007 Agreed it's silly. As is the immutable fact that henceforth those internal changes will become part of Leica Mythology. People who buy a 1.108 M8 will swear they can see improvements in this or that. People buying second-hand will strive to determine if the M8 in question left the factory as a 1.107 or 1.108, long after all M8s have been updated to higher-numbered firmware versions, and the fictitious, mythical "M8 version 1" will be forever stigmatised in the minds of the obsessive. Ridiculous, insane, nonsensical. But mark my words, it will happen. This is no different from wanting to buy a late serial model (over 1 million) M3 single stroke with self timer as opposed to the older, double stroke models. Or wanting a 4th version 35mm summicron pre-ASPH for its bokeh. It's all part of the mythology and culture of Leica For those of us who have yet to own an M8, it's good cos now there seems to be a reliable way to tell if an M8 at the shop is one from a latter, supposedly less problematic and buggy batch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Mondello Posted September 24, 2007 Share #252 Posted September 24, 2007 For those of us who have yet to own an M8, it's good cos now there seems to be a reliable way to tell if an M8 at the shop is one from a latter, supposedly less problematic and buggy batch If only that were the case! The fact is that none of us really knows what the component change means in any way -- who knows if the change means anything at all in terms of performance or bugs. I'd love to hear from someone who has one of these *new* cameras and one of the *older* ones who can make a real comparison. Until that happens, all of this is pure speculation! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted September 24, 2007 Share #253 Posted September 24, 2007 I've watched this thread without saying anything - mostly because I have a rather mixed response. My first instinctive response would be along these lines: Being able to afford a $5000 camera does not mean simply having the $5000 available. It also means having the emotional maturity to spend the $5000 and not agonize/weenify/panic (let alone mention legal action!) over every little tea leaf that floats by thereafter. Assume that the moment you walk out the camera store, the device has ZERO value except for the pictures you can make with it. But - given the fact that panic (or at least concern) was eventually justified in the case of IR-magenta and banding/blobs - I have to cut the agonizers a little slack. Maybe there will turn out to be a real issue here (and then again, maybe there won't). I don't think so, myself. My M8s work fine. If a component blows out eventually, Leica will (I believe, for the rational lifetime of a digital camera: 5-10 years tops) be able to substitute the new component(s), and firmware to match, if needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 24, 2007 Share #254 Posted September 24, 2007 Well I'm shooting my M8 harder, faster, longer and more often, just in case there is a built in "use by date" somewhere in the mysterious depths of the firmware. . . . . and if there isn't, well I'm already miles in front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eronald Posted September 24, 2007 Share #255 Posted September 24, 2007 Guy, I know as a fact (have seen) that Leica is pushing refurb M8s to the dealers. I have seen the boxes complete with warranty cards as delivered, this is not something the dealers are doing. The only way to distinguish the refurb from a new unit is that the warranty card that Leica sends with the refurb camera has a *small* mark on it. A novice buyer (eg. Guy Mancuso) who does not know about this practice, if not informed by the dealer will never know he is purchasing a refurb. I am sure all Leica dealers are 100% honest however some may be sorely tempted to sell Guy Mancuso or his trusting clones a refurb Edmund Manual i am not completely sure of your situation but from the way i read it and i know leica pretty well if there is a refurbished body than it will be marked as such. but i would seriously look at other places like your dealer for one. Because that is more the likely place this would happen and not from a OEM but i don't know all the facts and honestly i think your leg is being pulled from your dealer. This stuff really does not happen from leica itself unless it is clearly marked. Also you would have a used warranty card to boot again i have not read all of your situation so i am a little vague on all the details but my first reaction was a dealer issue. i wish you luck but i would keep the threats down until you have more info. Also there is a old saying you get more with sugar than you do with spice, and let me tell ya it works more often than you think. Threating a lawsuit will get you just that and not a new camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted September 24, 2007 Share #256 Posted September 24, 2007 Guy, I know as a fact (have seen) that Leica is pushing refurb M8s to the dealers. I have seen the boxes complete with warranty cards as delivered, this is not something the dealers are doing. The only way to distinguish the refurb from a new unit is that the warranty card that Leica sends with the refurb camera has a *small* mark on it. A novice buyer (eg. Guy Mancuso) who does not know about this practice, if not informed by the dealer will never know he is purchasing a refurb. I am sure all Leica dealers are 100% honest however some may be sorely tempted to sell Guy Mancuso or his trusting clones a refurb Edmund Edmund, Thank you for your message. I know that the Leica Shop in Paris has nothing to do with these practices. I know them for years and I know they are honest and trustful people. I never tell lies and moral values are very important to me. I have regretted to expose here the point about refurbished cameras, because some people here have tried to turn it as dealer fault. This is not good for the Leica Shop (they are friends and people I trust) and I feel responsible. I don’t have either any obscure bad feeling against Leica and I don’t try to find an “excuse” just to take them into Court. Though, there’re things I do not understand. When I bought my first M8 it came with firmware 1.094. This firmware has never been released to the customers on Leica’s Web site. So, why didn't Leica send an email to all customers saying the firmware 1.094 won’t be available for downloading as they did with firmware 1.108? Do you remember what happened with firmware 1.107? Leica released a first version of firmware 1.107 which was pulled out from their site a couple of hours later. It was replaced for another version (also called 1.107) but size was different (second one it was bigger). What does it means? Also hardware changes? Does the second version contain different drivers depending of M8 models? Just an example, I’ve seen people here complaining about the green stripe when you have a strong light source at the edge of the image. Well, I have tried many, many, times to reproduce this effect. It simply doesn’t happen with my bodies. Why? Is related to hardware changes? Maybe, I don’t know. Considering the cost in France for a M8 is 4290 Euros, I was willingly ready to pay 600 Euros more for my second body if this version had improved hardware. I was told that it wasn’t going to happen. Then, I bought my second M8. And the following day we received that upsetting mail. When, at the same time, we find out that Leica is not being honest to their customers selling “refurbished” bodies as new, the whole thing becomes very upsetting, don’t you think? If someone has a good explanation, I would like to hear it. Regards. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 24, 2007 Share #257 Posted September 24, 2007 I don't think Leica is being dishonest,Manuel, they do mark the refubished cameras,as explained in an earlier post; they have been doing this kind of thing for years, factory demo's etc.Actually, when I bought cameras new before, I tried to find factory demo's. I could be sure then that they had been double checked and tested. It is the responsibility of the dealer to sell the cameras as they are. The same goes for the change in component. The factory has the right to substitute parts, and improve the design as well during the run of production, has probably been doing so without anybody noticing all the time; all technical, not just electronic firms do that. It does not make a new type of camera. and it does not constitute a mark 2 or whatever. The only reason we know now is that there had to be a small change in firmware as well. Now I do understand your position, as you specifically asked your dealer. Leica informed him correctly that there would not be a new version of the camera. So he sold you one. If you are disappointed that a visible change was made,which is understandable, your sales contract is with your dealer, so any legal recourse you might have, extremely slim as your legal chances are, is against him, not against Leica. If the dealer decides to accomodate you ( you say he is a friend) they might try to refer this to Leica. They don't stand a legal chance, but Leica might decide to help a good customer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted September 24, 2007 Share #258 Posted September 24, 2007 Jaap, I'm not sure where you went to law school and I won't pretend to know French law but in the U.S authorized dealer and manufacturer bear the same responsibility. Hence, if a Ford car has a defect you can sue both the dealer that sold you the car and the manufacturer. Usually, you sue both. However, you can opt to sue only one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted September 24, 2007 Share #259 Posted September 24, 2007 John the man is dentist........................... see teeth:) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 24, 2007 Share #260 Posted September 24, 2007 Jaap, I'm not sure where you went to law school and I won't pretend to know French law but in the U.S authorized dealer and manufacturer bear the same responsibility. Hence, if a Ford car has a defect you can sue both the dealer that sold you the car and the manufacturer. Usually, you sue both. However, you can opt to sue only one. Ah yes. But over here we have the perception that in the States one tends to sue anybody and everybody... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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