Range of focus of Focomat 1c

[john fletcher]

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Hello,

I have just bought (from Germany) a Focomat 1c which seems to be in excellent condition apart from the wiring which I have carefully replaced.  It all now works as it should including the DBP mechanical timer. The first question I have is why is the minimum autofocus setting just 2x - I can see little purpose in producing a print of only 72 mm x 48 mm. Who would want such small prints or am I missing something

? I've been trying to set the head higher up the column so that on the 2x autofocus scale I get a more standard postcard sized print circa 150 mm x 100 mm but I've been unable to adjust the cam setting to get sharp focus at 10x. By the way it has the std. Focotar f 4.r x 50 mm lens.

Does anyone have a solution to this?

Secondly how do other users manage to focus high up the column because it seems physically impossible to view the image closely while one hand is twiddling the focus ring - you need arms like an orang-utang.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

John Fletcher

 

 

[Jeff S]

The manual addresses higher magnifications, if that helps…

http://manuelsphoto.free.fr/focomat_1c_manual.pdf
 

Jeff

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[M.Hilo]

John,

I do not quite understand your question. By squeezing the squeezer sitting on the left of the negative stage (right underneath the negative holder), you can just move the parallelogram up and down. That should give you a reach of plus minus 10x15cm to a bit more than 30x40cm.

There are 2 holes in the column and you should find a pin in one of them. The higher position is for when using an easel, the lower position for when you'd just project on the baseboard. If your parallelogram is not sitting on the pin, but instead somewhere else on the column, you have lost the automatic focus.

I have used the Ic for more than 40 years and still do, to be honest I have never paid any attention to that scale. Also, I have never touched the cam setting. Never needed to.

Question: are you using an extension ring of about 1cm between your lens and the helicoid? If not that would account for wrong focusing.

There's probably more to consider but let's take this step by step. Do you have the long 120cm column?

I print up to 50x60cm and it is then that I move the parallelogram up the column. Then I lose the automatic focus and indeed to use the grainfocuser while turning the lens is not all that easy. But it is possible.

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by M.Hilo

[john fletcher]

Thanks for the prompt replies. Yes I have the 1c manual in English + the original German version which came with the enlarger and I think(?) I understand how it works. 

My first question was really an observation as to why Leitz thought people wanted really small prints with the head swung to the lowest position. Just seems a bit odd to me.

The enlarger came with a 25 mm spacer for the column so I'm trying that. I can just about get the auto focus to work over it's full range.

Yes there is an adapter ring on the lens.

I've attached 3 pics.

The enlarger has a v.large baseboard of 64 cm x 58 cm in v.good condition with all the standard features - locking bar for the easel underneath on/off switch at the side and the socket for the timer.

 

John Fletcher

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[M.Hilo]

John,

For sure that spacer ring should not be where you placed it. This throws off your automatic focus completely! The parallelogram can simply rest on the pin, as well as on its own locking system to the column.

I have that ring too, but have never used it and I forgot what it was for.

Edited October 8, 2022 by M.Hilo

[M.Hilo]

John,

I have tried to find the spacer ring I thought I had, but can't find it. In some 1970ties Leitz Ic brochures there is mention of a spacer ring for the column of the Ic, to be used with the Agfa Variomat (Leitz code 17631) and in addition a couple of other spacer rings to be used with the Agfa Color head. ( Leitz code 17775). My guess is yours is one of those rings or a spacer ring to be used together with reproduction parts Leitz made.

I have many such Ic brochures with pictures of this enlarger. The parallelogram always rests on the pin.

If I were you I would try to bring back the automatic focus system to its original configuration. Then, there is a 5mm spacer ring to be used with the 40x50cm (12x16in.) easel, because that is 5mm thicker than the smaller wooden easel. I installed that 5mm spacer about 5 years ago, because I hardly ever use the smaller wooden easel. I guess it works and I left it sitting there. However, I don't give much importance to this ring and the concept of precise automatic focus. I always check the grain of each negative, since I printed first in the late seventies. It is something habitual. For me the big plus of the automatic focus enlarger is more about when we change size.

I don't know if this 5mm ring was Leitz made, I got it with one of the many Ic's that passed through my hands. Glennview makes them and paints them blue so we remember it is there. Which I find smart. Another thing to consider is the use of the AN glass under the condenser. To compensate for the added height, Leitz made a 3mm spacer to use underneath the condenser. Normally, there sits a very thin spacer. We can remove the condenser, use a light to look inside and you'll find a round ridge on which the condenser rests. There should be the very thin spacer and if you're lucky also the 3mm spacer. Both spacers are copper colored. Be careful before you remove the condenser if your Ic has the AN glass installed! It will drop when you pull up the condenser.

Your Ic is my favorite black version and it looks in great shape. I hope this helps to get it to work properly. Good luck!

Michael

picture attached

ps, here a link to one of the spacers, perhaps yours is the same. It is 35mm high:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/175443307798?hash=item28d93c6d16%3Ag%3Aj-UAAOSw6Hhhi6Zm&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=707-53477-19255-0&campid=5338915030&customid=web_b_lsrp_10303_r1_full_null_0_null_on&toolid=10049

 

 

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Edited October 10, 2022 by M.Hilo

[john fletcher]

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Hello M.Hilo,

Thanks for info. The column spacer I have is exactly 25 mm - I don't have any others. I was curious what it would do so that's why it's fitted at the moment. By adjusting the cam and focus I find that it does actually stay in focus over the full "auto - focus" range. However I don't have one of the grain focus things yet so it might not be perfect. With the 25 mm spacer fitted when I lift the head to max 10x magnification I get an image of 13.5" x 9" (34 cm x 23 cm) & with it right down it is 9 cm x 6 cm.

Yes there is an A/N ring glass under the condenser and I initially removed it and the condenser for cleaning but I can't say I noticed any other spacers. I'll have another look.

I also have a Leitz 10" x 8" easel which came with the enlarger so I'm now buying basic darkroom stuff. Can't wait to try it out!

John Fletcher

 

[M.Hilo]

John,

When you give the sizes you get with the enlarger down or up, are you projecting on an easel, or on the baseboard? Once I know what you do, I will do the same and tell you the sizes I get with the paralellogram sitting on the pin with the standard focus setting.

Michael

[zeitz]

Laney lists two 17675 adapter rings.  On page 490 of the second edition Collector's Guide, 17675 is described to mount Paxette lenses on the Valoy II enlarger; on page 492 it is described as "adapter ring to enable the Focotar 50mm, f/4.5 DOOCQ from the Reprovit II to be used on Focomat Ic".  The Paxette thread is a pure M39 thread - 39mm x 1mm pitch.  The Focotar thread is Leica Thread Mount 39mm x 26 thread per inch.  If 17675 has a Paxette thread, the DOOCQ probably will bind somewhat when the two are threaded together and may not even thread on completely.

From M. Hilo's comments the description on page 492 must be in error.

[zeitz]

I also checked E Leitz NY catalog from 1960.  Here is what it says about 17675.  "Extension ring for converting Focotar lens supplied with Reprovit II to Focotar lens # 17,581 (also adapts threaded PAXETTE lens to Leica enlarger expect Focomat IIa)"  So 17675 does have a dual use, even with the slight difference is thread pitch.

[M.Hilo]

Zeitz,

From the 2nd picture John included in his 2nd post we can understand this is just a ring without screw thread that slides over the column. 17675 is indeed the extention ring that every Focotar in the Ic or Valoy II needs to be brought down by about one cm. Right now I don't remember why Leitz did not bring the helicoid down that distance, but I do know there's a reason for it. Sometimes 17675 is stuck inside the helicoid. Leitz made a tool that fits the two slots in the screwthread, to be able to remove the ring . . .

John also has 17675 installed in his Ic. By my friend the Leitz repairer I was always told not to touch the cam settings, unless something was obviously wrong. It is smart of John to give the minimum and maximum sizes he now gets. I can compare, probably later today. In his initial post he found the minimum size strangely small. However, Leitz actually made a tiny easel for very small sizes. Folks did print that small.

ps the first versions of 17675 (called DOORX) did not have the slots and are sometimes impossible to remove.

Edited October 12, 2022 by M.Hilo

[Doc Henry]

Hi John I find these two cursors strange, are there two or one  ? the one on the right is not on the central notch

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I have these two links that might interest you :

http://www.kienzle-phototechnik.de/Enlarger.html

http://www.glennview.com/leitz.htm

I have in my home photo lab one Focomat 1C. From what i read Kienzle made enlargers for Leica.

Best

Henry

Edited October 22, 2022 by Doc Henry

[M.Hilo]

On 10/11/2022 at 6:03 PM, john fletcher said:

With the 25 mm spacer fitted when I lift the head to max 10x magnification I get an image of 13.5" x 9" (34 cm x 23 cm) & with it right down it is 9 cm x 6 cm.

John Fletcher

 

John,

Sorry, this took so long. I had to repair the wiring of my Ic and it was complicated. The wiring looks like new underneath the baseboard, in the end we found that one of the connectors had a faulty contact, pffft.

Anyway, measured without easel, the higher image I get is 27x39,5 cm and going down I get 10x15 cm but with a small focus adjustment. I can go smaller but then the adjustment becomes more (still doable). My automatic focus may well be off, but not by much. Again, I always use a grain focuser, with both the Ic and the IIc. My work prints are on 24 x 30 cm paper, I hardly ever go smaller. My largest prints are 50x60cm, and for this I raise the parallelogram about 40 cm up the column. I marked that on the column: 40 cm upwards from the pin in the higher position. The lower part of the parallelogram around the column sits on that marking.

When we do different sizes the parameters become variable: for these larger sizes I use 2 RRB easels, for the smaller sizes a Leitz easel and for the exceptional very small size I use the smallest Leitz easel. All these easels have a different thickness. So, unless one always prints the same size with the same easel, we can't simply depend on the automatic focus of Leitz to get it right. No big deal. My advice is to get the better Peak focuser. It costs more than the others, and it is worth it. The model below that one is also very good and cheaper.

I have used these enlargers for more than 40 years and they're fine. But other brand enlargers are fine too. Over the past 15 years I ran into the limits of the automatic focus and I modified the small Leitz Valoy II to do the same large sizes.

Michael

 

 

 

 

[john fletcher]

Hello Michael,

I have problem removing the easel from the baseboard clamping system. When I bought the enlarger it came separately and I had no problem fitting it but now but I can't get the damned thing off which I need to do at the moment. I've removed the two special nuts on the underside together with the spring plate which holds the main bar (see photo) but I still can't gert the easel off.  I've got in a bit of a mess with this can you help ?

Best regards,

 

John

 

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[M.Hilo]

John,

Is the easel coming up a bit from the baseboard, or is it still a tight fix to the baseboard?

I would probably take the parallelogram off the column so that you can set the baseboard on the floor front first. That should give you the possibility to drop a bit of oil into the metal grove into which the small copper part of the easel is stuck. Let that sit for a night, then try pull it off.

 

[M.Hilo]

Correction: the small copper part is the connector of the clamping system, and it fits into one of the two metal grooves underneath the easel

I have never experienced what happened to you now, but I imagine there was some dirt in the groove. I am not sure it was smart to take apart the clamping system, because by opening and closing it you may help it move. By almost closing it, you may bring it into a better position to come loose

Can you put it back together? I suggest you don't use a lot of force. When you can almost close it you could use a piece of wood and a small hammer to tap it very gently many times.

Later on at work I will have a look at my easels. Do you have the smaller one? The large Leitz easel is for 12x16in. (30x40cm). The smaller one is for 24x30cm, but I am not sure you have that specific size paper.

Edited November 7, 2022 by M.Hilo

[M.Hilo]

John,

Do you have the lever that sticks out on the right side of the baseboard? See attached picture

 

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[Andrew Wittner]

On 10/8/2022 at 1:46 AM, john fletcher said:

Hello,

I have just bought (from Germany) a Focomat 1c which seems to be in excellent condition apart from the wiring which I have carefully replaced.  It all now works as it should including the DBP mechanical timer. The first question I have is why is the minimum autofocus setting just 2x - I can see little purpose in producing a print of only 72 mm x 48 mm. Who would want such small prints or am I missing something

? I've been trying to set the head higher up the column so that on the 2x autofocus scale I get a more standard postcard sized print circa 150 mm x 100 mm but I've been unable to adjust the cam setting to get sharp focus at 10x. By the way it has the std. Focotar f 4.r x 50 mm lens.

Does anyone have a solution to this?

Secondly how do other users manage to focus high up the column because it seems physically impossible to view the image closely while one hand is twiddling the focus ring - you need arms like an orang-utang.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

John Fletcher

 

 

Being able to make a small eg. 2X print is perfect if you are using the Apple iOS enlarging app enLARGE, which involves making a small (usually as-tiny-as-possible) test print before using the app to compute the exposure time needed to make a any larger matching enlargement. 
 

You won’t be able to reset the height of the parallelogram arm assembly on the column and still get autofocus throughout an extended range because the autofocus cam simply isn’t shaped to do it.
 

As for running out of ‘arm length’ for focusing, yes, it’s a problem and the solution is probably to use a wide angle enlarging lens, thus with a shorter focal length which operates at a closer distance to the print, but it may not be possible to use one in the Ic enlarger because it will call for a much closer placement to the negative when in use, and the Ic probably won’t accommodate it. 

[M.Hilo]

5 hours ago, Andrew Wittner said:

As for running out of ‘arm length’ for focusing, yes, it’s a problem and the solution is probably to use a wide angle enlarging lens, thus with a shorter focal length which operates at a closer distance to the print, but it may not be possible to use one in the Ic enlarger because it will call for a much closer placement to the negative when in use, and the Ic probably won’t accommodate it. 

Andrew, I am not 100 percent sure but I think it is important, when moving the parallelogram up the column to have it as much as possible in the horizontal position. So that the lens is as far as possible from the column. This will bring the projected image furthest away from the column foot. Which is what you want to avoid the easel bumping into the column foot. However, I think this also brings the lens closer to us when reaching up to focus. I do my 50x60cm prints like that and, although it is a stretch to do, I manage to focus while looking into the grain focuser. But, this is the largest I can do.

I use the better Peak grain focuser. Expensive, but worth every cent . . .

Michael

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[tobey bilek]

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