Noctilux 50mm f/0.95 infinity focus at hard stop?

[Sammm]

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Hi All, 

Can you please let me know if the focusing ring stops at the hard stop for infinity focus or you need to dial it back a little for infinity?  My lens needs to dial back a little bit for infinity.  Just want to know how yours are like?  Thanks!

Sam

[fil-m]

Hi Sam, 

It stops at the infinity mark, can't push it further than that. For your reference below.

 

 

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[Sammm]

Thanks fil-m!  Mine also stops mechanically at the infinity marking.  However, it doesn't focus for infinity at that hard stop (infinity marking).  It needs to move back a bit (clockwise) to achieve infinity focus.  Is your lens like that too?  Can you please try it on a camera and let me know.  I am using an SL2-S with a Leica M to SL adapter.  Not sure if that makes a difference.  I was told by someone that this is normal from the design of the lens.  I just want to see if others have the same experience.

[Bo-Sixten]

Hi, mine stops as well mechanically at infinity. However for optimum results at infinity at very large apertures, I need to turn back the focus ring a wee wee tiny bit. Otherwise it focusses perfectly with the RF. To me it seems to ”over focus” a bit at 2/3 of the frame at infinity, while the rest of the frame is ”sharp”. This lens never stops to amaze me. :))

[Sammm]

Thank you Bo-Sixten for confirming the wee bit turning back at infinity to focus for infinity!  Very much appreciated!  You're right.  This is an amazing lens.  I had mixed feelings in the beginning but I think I like it more and more as I keep using it.

[fil-m]

Hi Sam,

Indeed and amazing lens, hard to master, but worth it (requires a lot of patience). I've never really tried to insist on its technical capabilities (and thus rarely pixel peeped), it is mostly an "artistic lens" and less predictable. With my APO I always expect perfection, with my Noctilux I accept what the lens gives me!

That being said, I've tried to take some snapshots and couldn't really reproduce your issue. I've taken the snapshot of a far building at f4 at infinity and then so ever slightly tried to dial back the focus ring taking the same picture. The one at infinity looks sharper to my eyes. Effect more pronounced at f0.95

Either my test does not fully reproduce your condition or my sample does not show this behaviour - please note that I bought the Nocti used/like new but with the knowledge that the seller sent it to Leica for a repair ("focus issue and calibration")...

Pix below at f4, the first one (1762) is at the limit, infinity (in line with the rangefinder), the second slightly shifted and it is less sharp

 

 

 

 

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[fil-m]

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at f.95 same result, infinity looks better

 

 

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[Sammm]

Thanks again fil-m for the detailed testings and comments!  Much appreciated!  The behaviour of your lens is what a normal person would expect on a regular lens.  It sounds reasonable.  However, my lens behaves a bit differently and so is Bo-Sixten’s.  Not sure if I need to send the lens in for calibration?  I bought this lens used and was told this is normal and it is part of the design that I need to dial it back a tiny bit from infinity to focus for infinity?  I am confused.  It would be nice if more 0.95 owners can chime in or people who have M lenses that have this behaviour to tell us a bit more.  

[Sammm]

I think my lens still focuses well for all other distances.  I don’t see other issues.  It just doesn’t focus for infinity at infinity.  I need to dial it back just a tiny bit.

[frame-it]

On 10/7/2022 at 6:57 AM, Sammm said:

I am using an SL2-S with a Leica M to SL adapter. 

this is exactly why infinity focus is just a little bit before the infinity mark

 

has been discussed to death before in other threads, i even posted screenshots from the M-L adapter manual that explains exactly what you're experiencing, you can search the threads for it.

 

[Sammm]

Thank you frame-it for the answer!  Just read the manual.  I guess the lens is fine then!

[knopfler1976]

Noctilux f/0.95 has been my main lens on my M9 for 11 years. While I'm not a lens technology expert, I don't think it was designed to shoot at infinity. In the first year I also tried to have my M9+Noctilux adjusted by Leica so that I could shoot full range. It usually ended up sacrificing mid-range focus accuracy (with rangefinder) so I eventually gave up and have my M9 calibrated to shoot Noctilux perfectly in mid-range.

If you still want to shoot infinity with Noctilux, my suggestion is to close the aperture. You're more likely to have really deep DoF by attempting focus at long distance anyway. Closing apertures won't change that much how the photo looks. Here's one I took yesterday, for example, with M10-R BP and Noctilux stopped down to f/2.8. See also corner crop at 100%.

 

 

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[Photoworks]

On 10/8/2022 at 12:38 AM, Sammm said:

Thanks again fil-m for the detailed testings and comments!  Much appreciated!  The behaviour of your lens is what a normal person would expect on a regular lens.  It sounds reasonable.  However, my lens behaves a bit differently and so is Bo-Sixten’s.  Not sure if I need to send the lens in for calibration?  I bought this lens used and was told this is normal and it is part of the design that I need to dial it back a tiny bit from infinity to focus for infinity?  I am confused.  It would be nice if more 0.95 owners can chime in or people who have M lenses that have this behaviour to tell us a bit more.  

every M lens with that way on M-SL adapter. It is by design to account for temperature expansion of the material so that you can focus to infinity in every situation.

[Sammm]

Hi Jerry, thank you for taking the time to show the samples and trick to close down the lens to gain more DOF.  Using the SL2-S, I am able to focus the full range including infinity.  I guess it is because I am using EVF on the SL2-S while you are using rangefinder on the M9.  It's just that the lens does not focus at infinity at the infinity mark.  I thought this may not be the best if I needed to shoot the night sky as it could be difficult to find something to focus on.  Most people would just leave their lens at infinity but I would have a hard time knowing where the actual infinity focus is.  Otherwise, everything is fine with my setup at this time.  You have some very nice photos on your website.  It looks like you're originally from Taiwan.  I guess you are residing in Paris now?  Thank you for chiming in!

Hi Photoworks, thanks for the explanation.  This makes sense.  Everything was done with a reason!  Much appreciated!

 

[knopfler1976]

2 hours ago, Sammm said:

Hi Jerry, thank you for taking the time to show the samples and trick to close down the lens to gain more DOF.  Using the SL2-S, I am able to focus the full range including infinity.  I guess it is because I am using EVF on the SL2-S while you are using rangefinder on the M9.  It's just that the lens does not focus at infinity at the infinity mark.  I thought this may not be the best if I needed to shoot the night sky as it could be difficult to find something to focus on.  Most people would just leave their lens at infinity but I would have a hard time knowing where the actual infinity focus is.  Otherwise, everything is fine with my setup at this time.  You have some very nice photos on your website.  It looks like you're originally from Taiwan.  I guess you are residing in Paris now?  Thank you for chiming in!

Hi Photoworks, thanks for the explanation.  This makes sense.  Everything was done with a reason!  Much appreciated!

 

Sammm,

Thanks for taking the time to check out my photos. Yeh I'm originally from Taiwan. Worked in California for a few years and then moved to Paris in 2012. Been here for more than 10 years. 

I've never shot stars so I guess my experiences are not very helpful. But in terms of Noctilux I really feel the best is just use it for street photography and portrait. Using it for landscape or cityscape doesn't really make sense given the strong purple infringing when light is harsh, also the (in-)famous distortion and field curvature. I suspect the purple fringing would be an issue if you shoot stars.

I also know some people using EVF for focusing Noctilux on digital M. For me it would work well for portrait but probably too slow for street. And whether it's live view of EVF, I guess at infinity it would show to be in focus anyway given the deep DoF. At least on my M10-R that's the case on live view even though in viewfinder it's not in-focus. Everything is relative I would say.

In any case in my 10 years of shooting Noctilux I've learned to just shoot what it's good at shooting. And that alone brings me non-stop joy. Even though the 40M pixels of my newly acquired M10-R BP is exposing its limit wide-open, I'll still keep it on my M9 and just enjoy shooting streets without worrying too much about other aspects. Just my two cents that hopefully can help you make purchasing decision. 🙏

Jerry

 

 

[Sammm]

Hi Jerry, 

Thanks again for the reply!  Happy chatting with you.  I don't mean to use the Noctilux to shoot stars but not focusing at infinity at the infinity mark had bothered me.  I thought something was wrong with the lens.  I now feel much better after some re-assurance from fellow forum members.  It's my first M lens and that's why I had a lot of questions.  Hopefully I will gain more knowledge along the way.

I am also using Sony A1's and Fuji GFX's.  It is just kind of hard for me to understand why I want to use an old MF M lens.  After using the Noctilux for a few weeks, I start to understand that it is actually different in rendering and feel.  This is definitely not a sports setup.  

Purchase decision has been made and I just have to enjoy the lens.  The more I use it the more I like it.  It is just very different from my other gear.

Hopefully, you will find a new lens soon for the new body.  BTW-I have an SL 50mm APO and it is super sharp.  Maybe your next lens will be the M 50mm APO?  🍺

Sam

[knopfler1976]

14 hours ago, Sammm said:

Hi Jerry, 

Thanks again for the reply!  Happy chatting with you.  I don't mean to use the Noctilux to shoot stars but not focusing at infinity at the infinity mark had bothered me.  I thought something was wrong with the lens.  I now feel much better after some re-assurance from fellow forum members.  It's my first M lens and that's why I had a lot of questions.  Hopefully I will gain more knowledge along the way.

I am also using Sony A1's and Fuji GFX's.  It is just kind of hard for me to understand why I want to use an old MF M lens.  After using the Noctilux for a few weeks, I start to understand that it is actually different in rendering and feel.  This is definitely not a sports setup.  

Purchase decision has been made and I just have to enjoy the lens.  The more I use it the more I like it.  It is just very different from my other gear.

Hopefully, you will find a new lens soon for the new body.  BTW-I have an SL 50mm APO and it is super sharp.  Maybe your next lens will be the M 50mm APO?  🍺

Sam

Haha, you read my mind. I'm indeed looking into APO 50mm. On the other hand I somehow got a hold of a APO 35mm in August and it's my main lens on M10-R BP now. APO 50mm also seems to drop a bit faster in value on used markets than some of the other craved lenses. I'm not in a hurry and will focus on shooting APO 35mm with M10-R BP for all-around shootings.

Noctilux + M9 continues to give me immense joy shooting streets in Paris. Given their combined weight and now my other combos better for traveling, I think I'll keep them in Paris and shoot them solely for Parisian streets. For M10-R BP, if I ever come across a used APO 50mm at a low enough price, I might give it a shot. For the moment I'm happy with APO 35mm. The close-distance capability is a lot more fun than I had imagined.

Enjoy shooting and don't hesitate to share some Nocti photos with us!

[Sammm]

I love 50mm lens.  Hope you will find an APO 50mm soon.  APO 35mm is no slouch and highly desirable.  You have 2 very nice cameras and are living in such a romantic city, there has to be a lot of interesting subjects to shoot.

You're right about the close distance.  One of the downsides of the Noctilux is the minimum focusing distance of 1 m.  This is a bit too far and inconvenient.  I have already posted a few shots on an Nocti thread yesterday or the day before.  I will post more in the next few days.

Cheers,  Sam

 

[Casey Jefferson]

I had 3 bodies that were calibrated by Leica, with 2 35mm summicron asph, all focused slightly beyond infinity. Only one that's adjusted differently, focused right on the infinity.

This is judged by focus patch vs markings on lens. In all situation, as long as the focus patch is aligned, they're in focus.

Probably with the noct things will amplify a lot more.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Sammm]

I guess focusing on M bodies with the rangefinders and SL bodies with EVF's are quite different.  SL bodies do not require calibration to match the lenses like the M bodies do.  It's just that my 50mm Noctilux f/0.95 did not focus at the infinity marking for infinity focusing and needed to dial back a little to achieve infinity focusing on the SL2-S.  As others have pointed out that this is normal due to the use of the M-to-L adapter.  I tried a 50mm Noctilux f/1.0 yesterday and it was the same that I needed to pull back a bit from the infinity hard stop to achieve infinity focusing.  In fact, I had to dial even a bit more with the 50mm Noctilux f/1.0.