35mm Summicron 8-elements OR 35mm Summilux pre-asph ?

[James6714]

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Hi everone,

I am shooting film (mostly B&W film) and want to purchase a 35mm lens and decided upon the above said two lenses.  My preference is on the 8-element, can members of this forum shade your thoughts and experiences on either or both of these lenses, thanks.

 

James

[shirubadanieru]

Both are the best 35mm leica has made from my pov. 8e can focus to 0.7m, and has a nice glow wide open. Lux is softer at 1.4, but the glow it provides, especially in b&w, is amazing. 8e is overpriced for what it is, summilux still attainable. If i had to pick one, lux. But if i could I’d own both. From f2.8 they’re the same.

Edited October 4, 2022 by shirubadanieru

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[pippy]

I concur with everything said, above, by shirubadanieru.

P.

 

[Jean-Michel]

The 8 element 35 Summicron is of course quite aged, mine (goggled) dates fro 1962. it continues to be an excellent lens although I did buy a current version   couple of years ago.

Some notes on that lens: 
It has a fairly low contrast and so-called glow wide open (f/2), the contrast increases quite a bit as soon as you stop down, even to just f/2.8.
If you need any adjustment, you need to get that dome by someone like DAG; Leica does not service this lens as it no longer has parts for it.

I red that a company called Light Lab or such is making copies of the thistles. Check elesewher on the site , to check Leica Rumours

 

[grahamc]

1 hour ago, James6714 said:

Hi everone,

I am shooting film (mostly B&W film) and want to purchase a 35mm lens and decided upon the above said two lenses.  My preference is on the 8-element, can members of this forum shade your thoughts and experiences on either or both of these lenses, thanks.

 

James

I own both and whilst the 8e is probably my favourite rendering (marginally), the best all-rounder is the summilux.  The extra stop is very handy for film shooting and I find it has more contrast, so is truly '2 lenses in one' as people often say (character-filled in open apertures and competes with modern lenses stopped down).  In comparison, my 8e retains the creamy/dreamy look just a bit more through the entire aperture range.   As much as I love it it's quite a 'signature' and so if I picked one it would be the 35:1.4 v2 for flexibility.  

(This may be because my pre-asph is the later, early 1990s Germany version, with reported updated coatings).   

The 8e is very sharp though so you truly can't go wrong with either.  Other observations would be that the 8e feels more compact in use, as do all the pre-asph crons - because of the wider 12504 hood that is needed for the lux.  As you can see it's marginal though.  

 

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Edited October 5, 2022 by grahamc

[Jeff S]

31 minutes ago, Jean-Michel said:

 

I red that a company called Light Lab or such is making copies of the thistles. Check elesewher on the site , to check Leica Rumours

 

 

 

Jeff

[RMF]

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Stellar choice in lenses!  I’m fortunate to have minty samples of both of these iconic lenses. My Summicron 8e is an original 1966 non-goggled version and my 35 pre-asph Canadian is a v1 transition model from 1966 as well. I’ve tested both of mine side by side extensively but here is my personal take on the two that I own:
 

35mm Summicron v1 8 element 1966

• I’ve found the 8e is a wonderful all-around lens
• Slightly less classic Leica glow at a comparable f2 compared to the early 35 Lux pre-asph.
• the 8e at f2 provides a lower contrast render, but gains a more contrast starting around f4 when it also cleans itself up and renders very “flat” across the frame.
• at f2 it has a moderate vignette as well.
• build quality is superb on the 8e lenses.
• overall user functionality and haptics is good; the aperture ring can be difficult to manipulate as it sits very close to the lens hood. The aperture ring is fully textured 360 degrees and I like using it. It seldom ever gets knocked off its intended aperture (because of its width and placement).
• I also own a v7 Light Lens Lab 8e that I’ve compared to my Leica; they have ‘very’ similar renderings although I’ve found that the Leica 8e has slightly more contrast wide open.

35mm Summilux v1 transition, pre-asph, Canadian,1966

• Classic 35 Lux pre-asph leica glow wide open at f1.4, but pretty much gone by f2.8
• mine front focuses slightly at MFD but catches up to focus at f4
• my version will focus down to about .78 as it is housed in a v2 body, but the 3 foot mark is where I measure it’s performance.
• Soft, glowing, low contrast rendering wide open with its sharpness/contrast coming in at f4
• Lens hood will spin and you will need to use series 7 filters with it.
• the aperture ring is small but easy to manipulate
• mine has a brass infinity lock on the focus ring
• overall user functionality is good with the lens, it’s a small extremely compact little lens and really easy to carry.
• I’ve ve read that different copies render differently, I don’t have any facts/first hand knowledge on the matter but maybe it varies by year, country of manufacture, and state of the condition of lens body and glass.
• really soft lens coating so very hard to find a nice example

Wrapping this up…I find both of these lenses a joy to use; both lenses are really sort of two lenses in one as both provide that Leica glow wide open and then both become more docile at you stop down. I guess the pre-asph is more of the wild child as it’s glow is pretty special and unique (also not to everyone”s liking). I feel that the 8e is not as extravagant but still offers a nearly same split personality. In use I tend to prefer the 8e as it just feels right on an M (hard to describe). 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by RMF

[shirubadanieru]

Since you will mainly shoot B&W, here's the difference in rendering wide open, both at minimum focusing distance of 0.7m (my lux was able to focus to 0.78m as it was an earlier brass model with the steel rim optics). 

The one here is the 8e, the next one I'll upload is the lux at f1.4. While you can see a lot of shots from the lux 35 in its own thread, unfortunately the 8e does not have its own thread (maybe we should change that & create one?!) 

If shooting color, I don't think the glow looks as nice as it does on B&W, so both of these lenses really are perfect for B&W shooting if you plan on shooting wide open most of the time. From f2.8/f4~f11 they are as sharp (or close enough) to their modern counterparts so it doesn't matter if it's B&W or Color.

 

 

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[shirubadanieru]

And here's the lux

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[James6714]

Thanks so much for all your inputs.

Does the goggle version of 8-element work on M-A camera?

[tsleica]

I have the LLL 8E. Its a fantastic lens. I got mine for $500-. Dont know if I would pay $1500- for it..as thats kinda high, esp in regards to LLL QC which aint great. I also have the pre 35mm 1.4 and that is a tough lens to figure out. Flares like crazy..and barely usable wide open. But as a tiny fast 35..maybe the best there is. If I had to own only 1..it would be the LLL. But if I needed the artsy soft image wide open..then I would get the pre.

[shirubadanieru]

2 hours ago, James6714 said:

Thanks so much for all your inputs.

Does the goggle version of 8-element work on M-A camera?

Yes, the goggled version works in all M cameras, but it reduces the magnification of the viewfinder, so it's ideal to use with the M3, and less so with all other M cameras because 0.72 magnification gets reduced even further.

[Darrell]

I really enjoy the goggled version on my SL (601), but it works just fine on my M10 as well, so this is a very versatile lens. I was recently at an event with a different lens but came across another photographer with it on his M7.

[DickieT]

I think RMF said most things right. I own both lenses and the handling / size of the 8e feels a little more compact and less ‘fragile’ than the Lux - especially with the hood attached. The 8e is maybe a little more robust which could be a benefit when travelling. 

The 8e when shot wide open is more predictable in terms of rendering. My Lux wide open is very prone to flare, something others here have not mentioned as much. It does make the results sometimes more interesting

I purchased my Lux before the 8e. Now I would do it the other way around. Both are great lenses and in my opinion yield more interesting results than the later ASPH 35’s. 

[Guest]

Interesting and really informative thread - thanks guys. I'm dreaming of both the 8e and 1.4 lux pre. I currently have three 35mm lenses, Summicron v3, ASPH. v1 and Summaron f/3.5 from 1958, with the Summaron and v3 being my two favorites now. So, really getting into older glass. I only shoot digital, M10R BP and M10M. The Summaron is amazing - very vintage look - on M10M. 🙂

I have been eyeing a new LLL 8e V2LC for 1,199Euro, but not sure if it is worth it? And also if the V2LC batch had more QC issues compared to later batches.

Thoughts/advice?

[shirubadanieru]

16 minutes ago, mcpallesen said:

Interesting and really informative thread - thanks guys. I'm dreaming of both the 8e and 1.4 lux pre. I currently have three 35mm lenses, Summicron v3, ASPH. v1 and Summaron f/3.5 from 1958, with the Summaron and v3 being my two favorites now. So, really getting into older glass. I only shoot digital, M10R BP and M10M. The Summaron is amazing - very vintage look - on M10M. 🙂

I have been eyeing a new LLL 8e V2LC for 1,199Euro, but not sure if it is worth it? And also if the V2LC batch had more QC issues compared to later batches.

Thoughts/advice?

The LLL is an amazing lens, I’d say it’s definitely worth it. I have never heard of any QC issues tbh, and the lens here in Japan is available on sale through the major Leica resellers. I actually think it’s better built than the original 8e because the LLL is all brass whereas the 8e is aluminum & brass (therefore quite light). A lot of people say the 8e is built like a tank, but I don’t agree. It is definitely better built than later black lenses, but does not get close to the smoothness of an all brass lens such as the older chrome pre-asph lenses (50mm Lux, Summaron f3.5, Rigid V1, etc.).

8e is an amazing lens, and if you want the original, then the LLL won’t do it, since you’ll always wonder about the 8e.  I’ve used both, their rendering is pretty much 90% the same. The Lux on the M10M would be a perfect match, since despite the 1m close focus, you have a lot of MP available to crop as needed. You can buy a lux for half the price of an 8e, so I’d say value wise that’s a better investment. What you can also do is to buy a Lux and an LLL and use both. If you prefer the LLL, sell both the lux and the LLL and get an 8e instead : p

Edited October 5, 2022 by shirubadanieru

[Guest]

7 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

The LLL is an amazing lens, I’d say it’s definitely worth it. I have never heard of any QC issues tbh, and the lens here in Japan is available on sale through the major Leica resellers. I actually think it’s better built than the original 8e because the LLL is all brass whereas the 8e is aluminum & brass (therefore quite light). A lot of people say the 8e is built like a tank, but I don’t agree. It is definitely better built than later black lenses, but does not get close to the smoothness of an all brass lens such as the older chrome pre-asph lenses (50mm Lux, Summaron f3.5, Rigid V1, etc.).

8e is an amazing lens, and if you want the original, then the LLL won’t do it, since you’ll always wonder about the 8e.  I’ve used both, their rendering is pretty much 90% the same. The Lux on the M10M would be a perfect match, since despite the 1m close focus, you have a lot of MP available to crop as needed. You can buy a lux for half the price of an 8e, so I’d say value wise that’s a better investment. What you can also do is to buy a Lux and an LLL and use both. If you prefer the LLL, sell both the lux and the LLL and get an 8e instead : p

Thanks, @shirubadanieru

Should I worry about V2LC batch compared to newer batches like V6LC - some say the newer batches has lesser sample variation?

[Jeff S]

All of this discussed in first thread I linked in post #6.

Jeff

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

All of this discussed in first thread I linked in post #6.

Jeff

Read both of those yesterday - but thanks, guess I’m a bit thick then for asking like I did. 

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[Jeff S]

2 minutes ago, mcpallesen said:

Read both of those yesterday - but thanks, guess I’m a bit thick then for asking like I did. 

No problem and not just directed to you. The older thread has a lot of useful comments, and pics, relating to this discussion, including from some of the same participants here.  Life on a forum.

Jeff