Help ! I have SL & Q and want to buy either SL2 or Hasselblad X1D II 50C or GFX 50s

[CodyChoi]

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Thank you for reading my long post - 

I have Leica SL with SL 50 Corn, Panasonic S16-35 F4, SL24-90, M 50 1.4 v2 & Leica Q

Flash - Nikon SB 600, SB 600 Leica SF40 

I came from Nikon D750 to Leica SL for few years already and now want to buy a 2nd hand camera. I mainly do dance photography and also do 20 + wedding/ pre wedding photo shoot a year. 

I've been doing dance photography and printed large for years and sometimes have 60 x 80 inch print order from my client. They are happy for the result so far. But I want future proof for my work, so I would like to have bigger megapixel sensor from my camera for have a better result to print large. 

For focusing I only use single spot/ point so no problem for any camera  ( I'm happy with the focusing with Nikon D750 / Leica SL / Leica Q) 

 

For wedding ... there are some situation that I need to deal with low light ... and a lot of times I prefer don't use flash .. ( I know I need to have a better skill in Flash photography ) a better ISO performance camera or 1.4 aperture lens will help ?

So ... all used  .. Leica SL2 ( £3600 )or  Hasselblad X1D II 50C ( £3600) with 45P lens ( £850)  to start with or GFX 50s (£1800) with cheaper lens but don't look good as Leica or Hasselblad camera... 

 -( or Hasselblad X2D £7369 and expensive lens like Leica's and it is worth it ?) 

Just in terms of IQ ... any suggestions ?   .. I think 40 to 50 megapixel will be enough for me or 100 megapixel will be much better ?

For wedding ... SL2 - how much better in low light than SL 601 ? I know it had body stabilization. 

 

May be buy

1- Buy Leica SL2 ( £3600 )or  Hasselblad X1D II 50C ( £3600) with 45P lens ( £850) for Dance and a Sigma 35mm 1.2 on SL for Wedding 

2-  Buy SL2 I can buy TL 35mm 1.4 with 20mp to use ... the MP for wedding is enough and also can print large with my SL lens. Will be good choice if the IQ close to  Hasselblad X1D II 50C ?

3- I know SL3 is coming ... we don't know when and how much, and buy the time I might upgrade 

4- GFX 50s ... very good price 

Thank you

[CodyChoi]

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[Sandokan]

Great work and great question. 

Only you know what feels right in your hand and which camera you will enjoy looking through the viewfinder. 

Your other unasked criteria are how fast they focus and fire the shutter and their burst rate so you can capture the magic instant in dance. 

If I were you, I would hire the cameras or go to my local dealer and play with/borrow the cameras and lenses. 

I bought the 907X because I liked how it felt in my hand and how intuitive it was to use. I am happy with the Hassy colour science and the lenses are amazing ... at the end of the month I will try them out in a studio and will know how they feel with a studio flash system. On the other hand, I have a great respect for Fuji and their commitment to photography and to the customer (which Leica does not have, IMHO (having been an owner of the DMR and the M8)) and I would love to buy one of their cameras. 

[CodyChoi]

Hi Sandokan 

Thank you for your reply. 

907X without added-on viewfinder and hand grip is the sexiest camera on the market !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just thinking X1D ii will be better for work, but 907x is sexy no.1 ! Would love to have one if I have extra cash !

Hass & Leica's camera are beautiful !!!!!!!!!  For me aesthetic and inspiration for the camera is important to me, otherwise Nikon Z7 ii or Sony A74 will be very good for wedding !

I love bring my Leica SL f& Q or work and it inspired me to create my work. And I love the Leica community   By the way I do portrait work in studio as well and I have two Portrait D2.  I tries to SL2 with SL 90-280 from Leica Store walk and it is a good camera. I contacted Hasselblad UK to load the X1dii and they never get back to me ...

I only use single shoot and single point focus while doing dance Photography work, so fast focus shutter and burst rate are not important to me. Would also like to know how you getting on with stucco flash system with 907X     

[hansvons]

Only you know what you want to achieve. 

I can say for sure, and that's only me, for stuff that is an integral part of my work and hasn't that news character in terms of shoot and deliver, I avoid digital and use film.

I have heard that Hasselblad's colour science is as good as Leica's. And if I'd be looking for digital for slow-paced shooting but with that extra oomph and perfection, I'd go the Swedish route (as I would for analogue). That said, I use the SL-S for its superb colour and high sensitivity; plus, it's a marvellous hybrid video camera, taking any lens you throw at it. And, as we all know, the lens is the kingpin in the game.

Some of my stuff ends up printed. I don't search for resolution or that super fine resolving brilliant print. I want to see the camera's/film's texture/grain, the lens' imperfection, flares, halation and tons of other stuff we subsume as its character. So, for me, the SL2-S 24MP is good enough, and so is 135 film. Your mileage may vary, of course. 

And yes, gear matters. Great lenses and cameras inspire and make one do stuff.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Normally we get this question and we say stick with what you've got..... But then you show us those glorious large format prints. Wow!

I have all the cameras you're thinking about except the GFX50SII. I photographed weddings for 20 years as well as some dance etc. But really I can only tell you what I'd do. Your choice is your own.

1. The SL2 is a big improvement over the 601 and everything is faster, including the AF. Especially in AFS. AFC works OK (but not great) but the experience is a bit frustrating. Since you're happy with AFS you'll be fine. The files are better and you have some lovely glass so I think you'd be very happy with an SL2. Also now Godox and Profoto support the Leica protocol so one of the biggest downsides is gone. The handling, menus and build quality is what you'd expect. It's a large upgrade over the 601. And familiar. You won't need to change much.

2. the sensor and IQ difference from the 47MP SL2 to the 51MP GFX or X1DII is bigger than you'd think. On paper they look similar. Even lab results have them close. But the bigger sensor files are just far more robust. Both have great colours but most people, including myself, think the Hasselblad colours are unmatched. However I'd go for the GFX. AF on the X1D isn't going to work for your dancers. It's border line for weddings. The GFX50SII isn't fast, by any means but it's noticeably faster than the Hasselblad. The zooms will focus close in speed to the 601. The primes vary. Forget the 907X. I love mine but I'd throw it out a window in frustration if I had to shoot dancers with it.

3. It's a large performance upgrade to the GFX100S and X2D. The GFX100S is the sensible choice but I think you could make the X2D work as well. But you get slightly improved SAF and massively better AFC (the X2D doesn't yet have AFC) with the Fuji. A better choice of fast focusing lenses. The tri flip screen is fabulous and you can put a much more comprehensive system together for far less money. The files from either will knock your socks off!! I did shoot a couple of weddings on the GFX (with an XT4 as my backup and reception cam) and it was easy. The camera was more than fast enough in every situation I needed it to be. It's not like the SL2 but it's not far behind. Having said that I will take the X2D over the GFX whenever I can. It has something special. The new lenses focus fast, but a hair behind the GFX equivalent. The older XCD lenses vary from good to OK. The standard zoom is excellent. like bag of primes and AF is decent if a step behind the new 38 and 55. I would shoot a wedding with the X2D as I shot weddings with M's before and this is much faster than that. Not as easy and effortless as the GFX however.

For you, I think the GFX100S is no 1. and SL2 is close behind. Maybe the X2D. But I'd really recommend you try one first. It might be magical. Or it might be a disaster. Probably not the GFX50SII and definitely not the X1DII and 907X.

Gordon

p.s do NOT adapt lenses to the Hasselblads. The electronic shutter is too slow for anything that moves. Anything. The GFX with work though as it has a focal plane shutter. The 'blads are really only for native lenses. And small format lenses, including Leicas are generally disappointing on the bigger sensor anyway.

Edited October 3, 2022 by FlashGordonPhotography

[BernardC]

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19 hours ago, CodyChoi said:

For wedding ... SL2 - how much better in low light than SL 601 ? I know it had body stabilization.

It's about a stop better, but the SL is already very good. The SL2-S adds another stop to the SL2.

Stabilization helps as well, but it won't make your subjects stand still. You probably won't notice much difference if you already have a steady hand and good technique (steady breathing, even pressure on the shutter button, "firm but loose" grip). On the other hand, it's great for static subjects in low light, or if you are naturally unsteady.

The two medium format options are good, but aren't as responsive as the SL, and you probably won't love their viewfinders. You'll need to decide for yourself if you like their handling and layout. I personally never liked the Fujis, because there are too many buttons, and they get in the way of my hands.

19 hours ago, CodyChoi said:

Just in terms of IQ ... any suggestions ?   .. I think 40 to 50 megapixel will be enough for me or 100 megapixel will be much better ?

Your print size is past the point where any of these systems hold detail down-to ink-drop level. 100MP (1.4x the density in any direction) won't make the same difference as it would at sub-1 meter sizes. You are going to get artifacts either way, which isn't a bad thing.

 

I think that the SL2 is the natural choice, given that you already like the SL system and its lenses. It is "more of everything,"  and you'll only need a few hours to get used to the slight differences. The two other systems will need more effort on your part (time and money), plus they may not take you where you want to go, especially in terms of responsiveness. There are no bad choices at this level, of course.

[CodyChoi]

Thank you very much for the response.

X1D ii might be a bit better than SL2  when doing large prints? Is medium format vs full frame but similar MP might not be showing big difference and I will need to go for XD2 if I want the best IQ? People say medium format have more 3D look but X2D only have 2.5 aperture new lens and a 80mm 1.9F and Leica have 50mm 1.4F and a few 2.0F lens. Will faster lens from Leica balance up the IQ?

I think SL2 is a very good choice and XD2 with one lens will be over £10,000 with one of the new lens. 

I will do more research in terms of the how big the image quality difference between SL2 & X2D for large print  ( up to 80 inch ) 

If anyone can out me in the right direction that will be amazing! 

Thank you. 

 

[Stuart Richardson]

If you are printing as large as 60x80 inches, then the 100mp cameras will make a noticeable improvement for you. That said, your subject matter does not seem to be highly detailed (at least compared to landscape, for example), so you will likely be fine with 47mp, especially with the 50mm APO Summicron. I think more important to you than pure resolution is going to be the speed and utility of the camera. In this sense, I would avoid the Hasselblad cameras. They have their charms, but they are not going to match the speed of handling of either the SL2 or the GFX cameras. Additionally, my experience with their customer service has been terrible. As you have seen yourself, Leica gave you a camera to test and Hasselblad did not even respond. If you are working professionally, this is a consideration. Fuji is likely to be better than both in terms of keeping your camera serviced and up to date.

Personally, I think you will be best served by the SL2 since you are already happy with the SL, and you have some of the fantastic lenses already. The SL2 is an upgrade in performance and certainly resolution. I think the jump from 24mp to 47mp is a bigger apparent jump than 47mp to 100mp. In terms of file flexibility, the 50mp medium format sensors will have more post processing room, but I don't think they will print any better. If anything, at low ISO I would give the edge to the SL2 giving the amazing acuity of the lenses. That said, if you are regularly shooting at the higher end of the ISO range (above 1600), then I think the medium format sensors will be better. That said, I never directly compared the GFX to the SL2 in that way.

I would certainly advise you to try the GFX series and see if you like them, but my advice would likely be the SL2. If not, I would go right to the GFX100 cameras. Hasselblad looks great and has nice ergonomics and image quality, but for fast moving work like you are proposing, I think it is a poor choice...especially the older 50mp X bodies.

[Jon Warwick]

Given your use of “£”, I assume you’re in the UK, where I believe Leica offers a “test drive” for a day of the SL2 (I believe they charge a fairly small fee), and Fuji has opportunity to loan pretty much any GFX body and lens as a free trial. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by Jon Warwick

[pgh]

I'd go for the SL2. 

If your options expand, I'd go for the X2d. 

I think hassy color is a bit better than Leica but as I tend to say, if you know your digital workflow, in the end the point is almost moot (unless your work relies on extreme color fidelity in the way an engineer might concern themselves with). An SL3 may not be so far out - possibly worth mentioning if you're not in a hurry, but what you have works for you an and SL2 will keep in line with that and be better to a noticeable degree. I prefer using an M when possible but the SL2 is my favorite non-rangefinder mirrorless camera on the market, even though it has its faults. 

Fwiw - I also use a 907x, which is lovely but suited to just particular uses best...and I only find the sensors to be a bit better in particular scenarios which may or may not apply to you. If you nail the shot on the SL2, and are working with good light, the difference becomes a lot less. The 50 mp sensor holds up to correction better for sure, esp when printing larger, but if your technique is good from the start the diff is minimized, to the point where I don't think the loss of versatility would be worth it for what you do. The lenses have a lot to do with this also, and I prefer Leica's options more, fwiw, though the new hassy x lenses look quite nice and the current ones are great too, just less interesting rendering to me. The X2d, with IBIS and (sort of) improved AF, and the step up in sensor might make it worth it. The Fujis are objectively great - basically the best IQ for $ with robust features etc, I just personally don't like them much, so can't help you there. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by pgh

[Jon Warwick]

12 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I think the jump from 24mp to 47mp is a bigger apparent jump than 47mp to 100mp.

Yes, I would agree with that, based on my experience of owning an M240, then SL2, and then GFX100. I think it partly owes to digital “issues” like false color and moire being pretty common on 24mp sensors, but it becomes much less frequent by 47mp (and hence 100mp too). Also, for a large print to (say) 50” wide, I find 47mp + SL Summicron is already enough resolution for many subjects, and 100mp isn’t adding a great deal extra in visual resolution. 

[RBB]

On 10/8/2022 at 7:49 PM, pgh said:

I'd go for the SL2. 

So do I

[CodyChoi]

Thank you for all your reply, will have a good think and make a move soon

[CodyChoi]

After a long wait and a shoot coming up., I've decided to buy a used Leica SL2, do let me know if anyone who base in the UK are selling. Thank you. 

[trickness]

I would NOT buy an SL2 for low light use, I find the noise noticeable at 1600 ISO (and use Topaz A.I. to correct it). I’d get an SL2-S for this purpose.

[dpitt]

If you don't mind some 'unprofessional' advice... Did you consider the M11 as your tool for higher resolution and low light shots? Your work looks like you enjoy semi-candid style. The M will help with this kind of portraits.

Edited February 21, 2023 by dpitt