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Using M10 for weddings


Farrell Gallery
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I have a Q2 and love it....but don't like the designs and interface of any of the interchangeable lens cameras....except the M series! I'm an analog dial and aperture ring guy. I have used manual focus, but how does it cope for professional work, as you get well rounded with it? My reason for wanting this is to have a standard telephoto focal length and maybe  50 to compliment the Q2. Am I correct that you must buy the diopter to suit your eye and it's not adjustable? (I use 1.25 reading glasses but no glasses otherwise) 

Edited by Farrell Gallery
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2 hours ago, jakontil said:

As long as you r comfortable with manual and a rangefinder, it wont be a problem, and diopter might be you good friend in this case

go to leica store and try which adjustments suit you best

Thanks! I could get used to it.....the hardest part, if I had to guess was working both the focus and aperture rings simultaneously haha....wish I was near a store but I do want to visit one, or all. haha 

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Used a pair of M9's for weddings as my only system for years. Also shot them with M240 and M10's.

Definitely doable. I can track a bride walking down the aisle with a 90mm f2 wide open, no problems. But it's definitely NOT for everyone. To use M's to that level requires lots of practice. As I no longer shoot M's as my main system I'd want a month shooting them exclusively to get my skill set ack up to the level I expect of myself.

Gordon

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19 minutes ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Used a pair of M9's for weddings as my only system for years. Also shot them with M240 and M10's.

Definitely doable. I can track a bride walking down the aisle with a 90mm f2 wide open, no problems. But it's definitely NOT for everyone. To use M's to that level requires lots of practice. As I no longer shoot M's as my main system I'd want a month shooting them exclusively to get my skill set ack up to the level I expect of myself.

Gordon

Understandable, and expected I suppose. There's something pure about this system though, that intrigues me. I had a fellow Santa Fe Workshops alumni, I think he used an M8, back in 2007 and he needed a filter so black would not record as purple. I should rent one if possible and visit the store. 

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58 minutes ago, Farrell Gallery said:

Thanks! I could get used to it.....the hardest part, if I had to guess was working both the focus and aperture rings simultaneously haha....wish I was near a store but I do want to visit one, or all. haha 

Pre focusing almost always the way when doing documentation including weddings, as for diapoter, try on and see which fits your eyes best, dont wild guess 

i know u gonna enjoy from the sound of it

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Of course the M system is a wonderful system. But we have to be realistic about its use. When speaking about wedding we imagine that there are scenes inside with poor light and outside with lots of light. All shots outside can be done with the M (still I would not go for that or I did it at the beginning of my M experience). The shots inside with an M: NO. Imagine just the discussion about camera shake due with high pixel number cameras (M11). You are talking about M10 here but still you need a 1/125s at least with a 50mm (probably 1/250s or shorter). When you are inside with f/1.4 or f/2 (depening on your lens) the precise focusing is crucial if crisp and sharp images are important to you. You are well aware that all human beings are moving. And you need time to set your focus. Why do you want to do that? I presume that you are aware of what Autofocus of modern mirror less cameras are capable of: A shot lasts less than 1 second and the guests do even not realize that they are being photographed. The M is my first choice every day, day by day. But not for events (shooting distance from 15m to 1,5m. I do a lot of events in bad light situations. I use then nirmally 50mm f/1.2 (for receptions or overviews) and 135mm f/2 (for speakers on a stage etc.). All very fast lenses on full frame. I bring home only crisp and sharp images and seldom somebody looks into my lens as I am very fast taking a shot (1s or less). Its important to me that people do not see that they are photographed as I want natural behaviour and no permanent smiles into the lens.

Edited by M11 for me
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4 hours ago, M11 for me said:

Of course the M system is a wonderful system. But we have to be realistic about its use. When speaking about wedding we imagine that there are scenes inside with poor light and outside with lots of light. All shots outside can be done with the M (still I would not go for that or I did it at the beginning of my M experience). The shots inside with an M: NO. Imagine just the discussion about camera shake due with high pixel number cameras (M11). You are talking about M10 here but still you need a 1/125s at least with a 50mm (probably 1/250s or shorter). When you are inside with f/1.4 or f/2 (depening on your lens) the precise focusing is crucial if crisp and sharp images are important to you. You are well aware that all human beings are moving. And you need time to set your focus. Why do you want to do that? I presume that you are aware of what Autofocus of modern mirror less cameras are capable of: A shot lasts less than 1 second and the guests do even not realize that they are being photographed. The M is my first choice every day, day by day. But not for events (shooting distance from 15m to 1,5m. I do a lot of events in bad light situations. I use then nirmally 50mm f/1.2 (for receptions or overviews) and 135mm f/2 (for speakers on a stage etc.). All very fast lenses on full frame. I bring home only crisp and sharp images and seldom somebody looks into my lens as I am very fast taking a shot (1s or less). Its important to me that people do not see that they are photographed as I want natural behaviour and no permanent smiles into the lens.

I shot everything you describe on an M with lenses including the 90 Summicron and a Noctilux, all wide open.  Candle lit receptions. Middle of the dance floor with a WATE and a hand held LED. The first kiss with a 90 wide open and the father of the bride seeing her for the first time in the dress. There's nothing here that can't be shot with an M and a skilled hand. Skill trumps gear, every time. Over 200 weddings shot exclusively with M's.

Sure, it's easier with a camera with the latest tech. That's not the point. Some of us don't want the camera do do all the work. Some of us want to use the skill set we've cultivated over many years. Weddings aren't sport. I don't need an A1 to shoot them.

And I handhold my M11 at 1/60 with a 90mm @f2 with 95% perfect focus accuracy and no camera shake issues.. A 50mm Summilux at 1/30. Then print to A1.

I don't recommend it for everybody but there's certainly some M shooters with a skill level to pull this off with confidence.

Gordon

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6 hours ago, M11 for me said:

Of course the M system is a wonderful system. But we have to be realistic about its use. When speaking about wedding we imagine that there are scenes inside with poor light and outside with lots of light. All shots outside can be done with the M (still I would not go for that or I did it at the beginning of my M experience). The shots inside with an M: NO. Imagine just the discussion about camera shake due with high pixel number cameras (M11). You are talking about M10 here but still you need a 1/125s at least with a 50mm (probably 1/250s or shorter). When you are inside with f/1.4 or f/2 (depening on your lens) the precise focusing is crucial if crisp and sharp images are important to you. You are well aware that all human beings are moving. And you need time to set your focus. Why do you want to do that? I presume that you are aware of what Autofocus of modern mirror less cameras are capable of: A shot lasts less than 1 second and the guests do even not realize that they are being photographed. The M is my first choice every day, day by day. But not for events (shooting distance from 15m to 1,5m. I do a lot of events in bad light situations. I use then nirmally 50mm f/1.2 (for receptions or overviews) and 135mm f/2 (for speakers on a stage etc.). All very fast lenses on full frame. I bring home only crisp and sharp images and seldom somebody looks into my lens as I am very fast taking a shot (1s or less). Its important to me that people do not see that they are photographed as I want natural behaviour and no permanent smiles into the lens.

All very thoughtful information, much appreciated! 

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2 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I shot everything you describe on an M with lenses including the 90 Summicron and a Noctilux, all wide open.  Candle lit receptions. Middle of the dance floor with a WATE and a hand held LED. The first kiss with a 90 wide open and the father of the bride seeing her for the first time in the dress. There's nothing here that can't be shot with an M and a skilled hand. Skill trumps gear, every time. Over 200 weddings shot exclusively with M's.

Sure, it's easier with a camera with the latest tech. That's not the point. Some of us don't want the camera do do all the work. Some of us want to use the skill set we've cultivated over many years. Weddings aren't sport. I don't need an A1 to shoot them.

And I handhold my M11 at 1/60 with a 90mm @f2 with 95% perfect focus accuracy and no camera shake issues.. A 50mm Summilux at 1/30. Then print to A1.

I don't recommend it for everybody but there's certainly some M shooters with a skill level to pull this off with confidence.

Gordon

That's awesome and I appreciate this! I need to rent one and play with it....I think I'd really like it. Is it an optical viewfinder or electronic on these M10-11? 

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9 hours ago, Farrell Gallery said:

I had a fellow Santa Fe Workshops alumni, I think he used an M8, back in 2007 and he needed a filter so black would not record as purple. 

That problem was with the M8. The M8’s OLPF stack did not cut enough IR, so, one needed to use an IR-cut filter, on the lens. See this LUF page:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/26839-black-subject-purple/

This issue not not a concern with the M10.

Edited by RexGig0
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vor 3 Stunden schrieb FlashGordonPhotography:

I don't recommend it for everybody but there's certainly some M shooters with a skill level to pull this off with confidence.

oh, no doubt. But I think this has nothing to do with skills. 

And: Do you know the difference  if you had a modern camera? Hm, of course the M11 is my favourite

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1 hour ago, RexGig0 said:

That problem was with the M8. The M8’s OLPF stack did not cut enough IR, so, one needed to use an IR-cut filter, on the lens. See this LUF page:

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/26839-black-subject-purple/

This issue not not a concern with the M10.

His images were stellar, though he did tell me he had shot Leica since the 60's...and Leicas have always been so well made. However, they aren't shy about charging the consumer for things they should have done differently but they're as addictive as blueberry muffins. :D 

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6 hours ago, M11 for me said:

oh, no doubt. But I think this has nothing to do with skills. 

And: Do you know the difference  if you had a modern camera? Hm, of course the M11 is my favourite

Being good with an M is all about skill. The more you practice the better you get. More so than any other camera currently available new.

Gordon

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6 hours ago, Farrell Gallery said:

Can't wing it with one of these. For sure. 

Of course you can. Have done exactly that for years. Why do you think street photographers like the M so much?

I've been in the game for nearly 35 years. Shot weddings and commercial jobs with Sony's, Canon's, Leica SL's. Hasselblad's, Fujis and Leica M's digitally and more with film.

M's have limitations. Spontaneous fast paced candid photography is not one of them.

Gordon

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On 9/24/2022 at 8:24 AM, Farrell Gallery said:

That's awesome and I appreciate this! I need to rent one and play with it....I think I'd really like it. Is it an optical viewfinder or electronic on these M10-11? 

The viewfinder that is integrated into the M10 and M11 cameras’ bodies is optical glass. The external Visoflex electronic viewfinders, are accessories, added to the flash shoe. The Visoflex Type 020 is the external EVF available for the M10 series. The Visoflex 2 is the external EVF introduced for the M11, and, with a firmware update, is backwards-compatible, with limitations, with the M10 series.

Live View, using the rear LCD, is, of course, possible with the M10 and M11.

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On 9/24/2022 at 5:25 PM, Farrell Gallery said:

Can't wing it with one of these. For sure. 

My favored camera, for keeping up with my toddler grandsons, when they are running-about, is an M10 or M Type 246 Monochrom, using a wide-angle lens, because zone/scale focusing tends to be FASTER, and more successful, than AF with a Nikon DSLR. Rather than squat to reach their level, I stoop forward, looking downward as necessary to set the distance and aperture, and shoot “instinctively,” by simply pointing the camera. A 28mm or 35mm lens is quite simple, as setting it for ~12 feet, or four meters, with the aperture set for a generous DOF, means that everything from about six feet to infinity is acceptably sharp. So, it is a matter of moving the focusing ring from the MFD, to the six feet mark, as necessary. A 24mm lens is even more forgiving than a 28mm, and a 35mm lens is just a bit more difficult than using a 28mm, with zone/scale focusing.

I am not very athletic, nor very well-coordinated, being a clumsy carp, by nature, so zone/scale focusing is not a skill that is limited to a lucky few gifted individuals.

Some wide-angle lenses, made for Leica cameras, have no rangefinder coupling, being customarily zone/scale focused. One example is the Cosina/Voigtlander Snapshot Skopar 25mm f/4 lens, made in the past for the Leica Threaded Mount. (LTM) Another example is still shown on the Zeiss website, and listed as available, new, the made-in-Germany Distagon 15mm f/2.8 ZM. So, zone/scale focusing is not a work-around, but a valid focusing technique. These two just-mentioned lenses were developed and introduced well before Live View and EVFs, so, focusing with the distance scale was perfectly normal, even for a high-end Zeiss lens.

Edited by RexGig0
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  • 2 weeks later...

I'vs used an M10 for Indian wedding shoots where there is activity in many zones. Challenge is to have fewer lens changes. If you know where to position yourself at all times to get the best shots within your focal length, you minimise cropping. For me a 28 and a 50 works best. 

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I, and thousands of photographers, shot weddings for decades and decades with manual focus cameras including Hasselblads that had to be hand cranked and some 35mm cameras without any issue. Doing so without autofocus as well was never a problem. Of course you can do it.  I would recommend a couple of bodies so you can have different focal length lenses but there shouldn’t be any problem.  If there is, it’s operator error. 

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