All 100% cotton/α-cellulose papers with no OBA

[Dennis]

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Do you know where I can find this information online instead of opening all pdf of each paper brand on sale? I can't find it.

I just started diving into the fascinating world of fine art prints, and I'm enjoying the journey and the new knowledge very much. What a beautiful sensation to handle and feel a print. For a while, I forgot what it was about. 

What's your opinion about OBA?

 

[pedaes]

20 minutes ago, Dennis said:

What's your opinion about OBA?

Personally it is not something I fuss about, although I expect someone here will and tell you why you should (in their opinion). This might help https://www.northlight-images.co.uk/keith-coopers-paper-reviews/

The 'right' paper can make a big difference though - semi-gloss or matt, hot press or cold press. Top brand fine art papers are a joy if you have a good image well processed and have a calibrated screen and printer.

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[Dennis]

14 minutes ago, pedaes said:

Personally it is not something I fuss about, although I expect someone here will and tell you why you should (in their opinion). This might help https://www.northlight-images.co.uk/keith-coopers-paper-reviews/

The 'right' paper can make a big difference though - semi-gloss or matt, hot press or cold press. Top brand fine art papers are a joy if you have a good image well processed and have a calibrated screen and printer.

Thanks for the link. I will read it, there is a lot of information.

Yes, it's a fascinating world. I already ordered some print tests with different printers. I just started, so I don't have my own printer yet.
But with the proper calibration and ICC profiles, I have achieved excellent (and not) results so far, and thanks to soft proofing, I can have an idea of how the paper will behave. I already know (decided) that I don't like glossy papers and prefer RAG paper's smooth texture, weight, and feel. Or even an alpha-cellulose. But then I see how my deep and contrasty blacks are "fading" (to say it funnily), and I'm more toward luster (semi-gloss) or satin or baryta papers. Then I see the glare and.... 😆 Just kidding. 

I'm trying to find two ideal papers that match my vision and aesthetic. Step by step, I will find them. Not hurry, and the discovery process is fascinating.

 

[djmay]

I use Hahnemühle Photo Rag; no OBA. 

[Dennis]

5 hours ago, djmay said:

I use Hahnemühle Photo Rag; no OBA. 

I like very much the feel and weight of this paper, but it has OBA, even thought very low. Take a look here: https://www.hahnemuehle.com/fileadmin/user_upload/bilder/pdf_Datenblaetter/dfa/datasheets/FineArt_Collection/datasheet-PhotoRag308.pdf

The Canson Rag photographique for exemple has similar result but it's OBA free.

I still didn't figure out if I can get a deeper blacks on RAG papers, considering the paper low Dmax. Not sure if it's possible...

[LocalHero1953]

There is a vast choice out there, and checking every PDF for OBA data is a pain, I agree. I went through the same process some years ago, and decided there was no need to check every single paper on the planet - life is too short. From reading here and elsewhere, I focused on just a couple of brands - Canson and Hahnemuehler, which were highly recommended and readily available in this country. I knew I wanted three different types: textured fine art matt, flat matt and semi-gloss. I ordered variety test packs from both brands, and spent time reading the data sheets. I printed on all the sheets in the test packs, and then picked one from each category.

FWIW, I have ended up regularly using BFK Rives (its name has changed a bit since then, but the paper is the same), Rag Photographique, and Platine Fibre Rag.  I have since added Baryta Photographique as my nearly-gloss. I have a box of Permajet Oyster as my cheap resin coated pearl paper for quick & dirty prints where archival qualities are not needed.

I have no doubt that I could have assembled a collection of similar papers from Hahnemuehle or another top brand, but the important thing IMO is getting to know a small number of papers very well, including finding colour profiles you are happy with.

[Jeff S]

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I don’t sweat a small amount of OBA’s.  I do my own custom matting and framing using archival materials, including the best glass, as well as careful display/storage.  The majority of my prints are B&W and, at age 72, I’m not worried about these prints being capable of surviving well beyond me (if anyone cares to preserve them). Wilhelm Research longevity tests support my belief, are are available on a broad range of papers.

That said, the best method I’ve found for choosing print papers (I’ve printed on my own since the 80’s) is to make prints and assess.  In darkroom days, this sampling  was laborious and time consuming, especially considering all the variables in the shooting to print process.  In the digital world, this is far simpler and quicker, particularly using ImagePrint as my print software, which has superb custom profiles for virtually any paper (and under a variety of lighting conditions for each), as well as operating in full time soft proof mode.

We’re blessed (again) to have a wealth of options these days… not just company choice…but texture, weight, base color, contrast, etc.  I typically settle on a few and try to get to know them well.  Unfortunately, as in the distant past, formulations change over time and spoil the consistency and predictability.   Just another thing the user needs to address.  

Jeff

[Dennis]

5 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

textured fine art matt, flat matt and semi-gloss

Having to choose from three options, I would choose today a Rag (matt) and two types of semi-glossy luster/satin: one for color, one for bw.

5 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

FWIW, I have ended up regularly using BFK Rives (its name has changed a bit since then, but the paper is the same), Rag Photographique, and Platine Fibre Rag.

I found the Rag a sensational paper, OBA-free at the difference of the Hahnemuehle. But because of the low Dmax, I honestly don't enjoy the blacks. YET! My editing is contrasty with deep shadows. And mostly with Rag papers, I don't see that kind of matt for my vision. So far as what I think. I don't want a Kodak Endura kind of print; I want to feel good when handling the paper; it's fine art, not Costco.
I'm waiting for next month's test with Moab Exhibition Lustre 300 and Hahnemuehle glossy baryta. We will see.

6 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Platine Fibre Rag

I want to try this paper so bad. I bet it could be a match for my BW prints.

5 hours ago, Jeff S said:

That said, the best method I’ve found for choosing print papers (I’ve printed on my own since the 80’s) is to make prints and assess.

This is what I'm doing. And the differences are fascinating. Who could have said that one day I would use and enjoy five different 35s for my M10? Years ago was unthinkable. Same for printing: who could have said... The papers perform differently, and it's fantastic. They have for all tastes.

5 hours ago, Jeff S said:

The majority of my prints are B&W and, at age 72, I’m not worried about these prints being capable of surviving well beyond me (if anyone cares to preserve them)

I can do it for you! 🙂 Thought, I never saw proof of your experience and knowledge.
Changing of the subject: do you still have the 35 Summaron?

[Jeff S]

9 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Changing of the subject: do you still have the 35 Summaron?

Sold… cutting back on gear.  Also not a fan of infinity lock.  But no rendering complaints.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

13 minutes ago, Dennis said:

 

This is what I'm doing. And the differences are fascinating. Who could have said that one day I would use and enjoy five different 35s for my M10? Years ago was unthinkable. Same for printing: who could have said... The papers perform differently, and it's fantastic. They have for all tastes.

 

But nothing substitutes for having total control with your own printer and workflow.

Jeff

[Dennis]

6 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

But nothing substitutes for having total control with your own printer and workflow.

Jeff

This is the goal. But I don't want to buy a printer yet, I'm still embracing the whole scene

[Jeff S]

4 minutes ago, Dennis said:

This is the goal. But I don't want to buy a printer yet, I'm still embracing the whole scene

Did you ever make silver (darkroom) prints?  
 

Jeff

[Dennis]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Did you ever make silver (darkroom) prints?  
 

Jeff

Only a few times with a friend. But I do have experience color prints (RA4) and C41 for negative.

But for giclee, I just started... I knew about it before start to print. Now I'm starting to connect the dots and confirm theories. 

I'm still in shock about rag papers. I don't understand them yet.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Dennis

[Jeff S]

Some of the Baryta layered papers are reminiscent of darkroom papers for b/w.  I like Canson Infinity Baryta Photographique (now v. 2).

Just as with darkroom prints, however, one should take into account glass types, matting and display lighting, of course for a frame worthy pic. Differences can significantly affect print appearance beyond just paper choice.

Jeff

Edited September 23, 2022 by Jeff S

[LocalHero1953]

7 hours ago, Dennis said:

I would choose today a Rag (matt)

NB 'rag' is just the name of the material the paper is made from - cotton rags - not the name of a finish. A rag paper can be matt, semi-gloss or gloss.

[Jeff S]

Indeed, along with various other property differences.

Jeff

[Dennis]

7 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

NB 'rag' is just the name of the material the paper is made from - cotton rags - not the name of a finish. A rag paper can be matt, semi-gloss or gloss.

Yes, I see. As for example the Platinum Fiber rag. It's cotton, but it has a satin finish.

When my next prints arrive, I will understand much better differences between baryta, semi-gloss and satin. 

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

When my next prints arrive, I will understand much better differences between baryta, semi-gloss and satin. 

For those particular papers only.  There are many differences between manufacturers, and sometimes even between papers from the same manufacturer, despite similarly sounding names.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

And keep in mind that if/when you buy your own printer, if it’s different from the printer, the ink set and/or the paper profiles used by your print service, results may again vary. Home printing allows one to change one variable at a time, to best determine the effect of each.  

Jeff

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Hallo,

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