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Monochrom vs. M10 shot in B&W


MikeMyers

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I've never seen or handled a Leica Monochrom, but I've had a question I have wanted to ask for a long time.

If I shoot the same photo with a Monochrom, and then with an M10 in B&W mode, how would the images compare?

 

The only B&W photos I've done with my Leica cameras were with B&W film.  If I want to print my M10 images in B&W, how will they compare to what I could accomplish with a Monochrom?  With the whole camera dedicated to B&W, I'm sure the Monochrom images will be superior, but will this be obvious to anyone looking at the finished images?

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I think that there will be a difference, but whether it is big or small is up to the individual. Monochroms are more sensitive to light as well.

The reason I have B&W cameras, Sony and M9M, is that it is like your film camera with B&W film. It puts you in a different mindset and changes your approach to your subject.

Joel

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The M10 Monochrom has all of its 40 mp dedicated to the B&W image, whereas the M10 will share the 24 mp between the colour data. Better resolution along with improved ISO performance.  

I'm sure someone will chime in with a definitive answer. 

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I shoot a monochrome camera because it brings me in a different mindset (Like Joel), but you could achieve the same setting the image style of your M10 to B&W.

On the other hand usually the resolution of a monochrome sensor is higher for the same pixel count because it doesn't need to be de-bayered to create the colour channels. I also find the "look" of a monochrome sensor different than from a converted colour image allthough I've never done a true side-by side test. But this might well be down to my limited experience (so far) processing monochrom images and wether they're better or worse is in the eye of the beholder.

However another key difference is that you can adjust the individual colour channels of a colour photo to change how the B&W looks, with a monochrome camera the only way to do that is using colour filters at the time of exposure. With a colour camera you can do that more flexibly and after the fact (in your raw converter or photo editing software).

But having learned photography using B&W film I just enjoy tinkering with a monochrom camera and colour filters, in the end don't care if it's better/worse/different compared to a B&W converted photo, it's all about the fun I have using it.

 

Edited by pegelli
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That's encouraging news, thanks.

Would it be appropriate to say that if two images printed 30" wide were posted side-by-side, the Monochrom image would stand out, but if both were uploaded to the forum 2200 or so pixels wide, it would be hard to tell them apart?

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It’s mostly the photographer, not the gear,  just as in film and darkroom days. Some do a lot with a little; some don’t do much with the most expensive gear.  Thankfully. Otherwise everyone’s pics would look alike once the gear was chosen.

There are many other threads here on the Monochrom compared to color-based M’s.  I own both, and can make wonderful, or mediocre, pics and prints with each.  My mindset shooting with a Monochrom is different. There are no distractions looking for colors pics; it’s all about luminance and tonality.  The workflow is also different since one can’t use color channels in post, instead relying on colored lens filters (Photoshop ‘tricks’ are another discussion). 
 

And then there are all the technical distinctions between the three Monochroms, and between the various color-based models.  Again, the implications depend on how the photographer uses that to his/her advantage… or not.

Jeff

 

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28 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

There are many other threads here on the Monochrom compared to color-based M’s.  I own both, and can make wonderful, or mediocre, pics and prints with each.  My mindset shooting with a Monochrom is different. There are no distractions looking for colors pics; it’s all about luminance and tonality.  The workflow is also different since one can’t use color channels in post, instead relying on colored lens filters (Photoshop ‘tricks’ are another discussion). 

Thanks; I guess I didn't need to start a new thread here, as I forgot about this one:  https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/274346-m10-black-white/

29 minutes ago, OThomas said:

who knows why not try it?

That's the plan, in the near future.  I think I can remember how to get back into a B&W mindset.  One more fun thing to do.

Thanks, everyone.

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Whatever the technology of the sensor might be, I know that I pick up my M10-M, fit an orange or green filter on it depending on subject, and it makes superb exposures that I can render to exactly what I like in B&W photos made with my M4-2 (and the same filters with the same lenses). I was able to render excellent B&W photos with my prior M9, M-P240, and M-D262 ... but the M10-M has substantially more resolution, substantially more sensitivity, and does a more consistent, easier to process, job of it. 

What I want now is to add an M10-R body to my kit and dispense with the four or five other camera systems I currently have, minimizing/simplifying my lens kit and decision making process to just these cameras and lenses. That makes rational sense for my photography today... 

Needs and desires change over time. The equipment kit should simply reflect that. :)

G

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I bought an M10-r a couple years ago. I also, at different times, had an M3, an M5, and an M6 that I shot mostly B&W with. I never was able to get as good results (it’s subjective clearly) with the M10-r in BW mode as with film cameras. 
 

Then I happened on a good deal for an M10 Monochrom. It quickly replaced the M10-r as the camera I reach for most often. The Monochrom has better dynamic range, lower noise in all situations but especially high ISO shooting, and produces greater usable detail. It is easier to coax real detail from shadows and, to some extent even highlights, with the Monochrom. 
 

I use color filters frequently so am not concerned with the color channel flexibility LR lends to color sensors in BW mode. 
 

I’m going to sell the M10-r. I’ll get a Sony mirrorless prolly, but the Monochrom really takes me back to my film days. Fabulous pictures. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/20/2022 at 9:09 PM, Luke_Miller said:

For whatever reason I have not been able to produce B&W images from my color bodies that are as satisfying as those from my M9M and M246.

The monochrom cameras definitely have a unique image quality. I absolutely notice it in the digital darkroom, but usually by the time my image is finalised I can’t tell a difference between my colour conversions and my monochrom images. Probably a lot to do with how I like the final look and the type of subject that I shoot. 

My instagram has a mix of black and whites taken on both film and digital, with Sony, Leica, Fuji, iPhone… when I look back at my instagram even I can’t even tell which camera I used a lot of the time. 
 

With all that said, there is absolutely a magic to the monochrom files that no other camera can match. I can get more from the monochrom files, do more with them in post, they are just beautiful files to work with. I’m in awe when I look at them in lightroom. I don’t get that same awe with the M10/M11 converted files. 
 

 

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5 hours ago, Stevejack said:

The monochrom cameras definitely have a unique image quality. I absolutely notice it in the digital darkroom, but usually by the time my image is finalised I can’t tell a difference between my colour conversions and my monochrom images. Probably a lot to do with how I like the final look and the type of subject that I shoot. 

You seem to be saying that straight from the camera, the Monochrom files are superior to similar images taken from regular Leica cameras, but with skillful editing both can lead to superb results. 

If so, could you please elaborate on this:

5 hours ago, Stevejack said:

Probably a lot to do with how I like the final look and the type of subject that I shoot. 

What things (tricks?) do you do in your editing that allow your non-monochrom images to match the quality of images taken with your Monochrom?  Is it something that "you" do, or is it from some feature/tool in Lightroom that accomplishes this?

(I think you're saying that you can get the same effect from either camera, but it's easier when you start with an image from a monochrom.  Is that correct?)

(Is this some of what you do?  https://blog.upskillist.com/5-black-and-white-photography-editing-tips-for-stand-out-images/  )

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1 hour ago, MikeMyers said:

You seem to be saying that straight from the camera, the Monochrom files are superior to similar images taken from regular Leica cameras, but with skillful editing both can lead to superb results. 

If so, could you please elaborate on this:

What things (tricks?) do you do in your editing that allow your non-monochrom images to match the quality of images taken with your Monochrom?  Is it something that "you" do, or is it from some feature/tool in Lightroom that accomplishes this?

(I think you're saying that you can get the same effect from either camera, but it's easier when you start with an image from a monochrom.  Is that correct?)

It’s more that the end result of my editing process usually results in very similar looking outputs, meaning that the content of the image will be paramount and i’ll be throwing information (tonal range) away to achieve the look I’m going for. Crushed blacks, blown highlights, whatever serves the subject the best.   
 

The monochrom files have a clean look to them, smoother transitions between greys. There is more useable information in the darkest areas of the image and when you raise the exposure or shadows, you can more easily bring back contrast again into those darker areas again without the image falling apart. With the colour cameras, this isn’t as easy to do without noise/muddiness creeping in, but all of that can be dealt with. You will see it, but the audience won’t. 
 

I’m probably not explaining this well at all, sorry. But yes what I’m saying is that the monochrom files give you a better file to work with in most situations, but at the end the editing process the viewer won’t know any difference. 
 

I don’t think I’ve ever taken an image, or seen an image, where I thought that it would have been better if I shot it on a monochrom. Photographs don’t live or die on their technical prowess, but obviously it’s nice to have tools which make our lives easier and bring us joy to use. No-one likes fighting against the technical limitations of their equipment if they can avoid it 👍

 

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4 minutes ago, Stevejack said:

I’m probably not explaining this well at all, sorry. But yes what I’m saying is that the monochrom files give you a better file to work with in most situations, but at the end the editing process the viewer won’t know any difference. 

Thanks; I think I understand much better, and you did answer my question.  As I understand this now, a monochrom would be better suited to B&W photography, but I can get to a very similar end result using my M10, saving $$ and allowing me to walk around with one camera, not two.  I also strongly believe that it is a photographer's "eye" that makes a great photo, not the gear.  And finally, that I need to learn more about how to edit B&W images.

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