Why Leica?

[lct]

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Why Leica? Best IQ in a compact package. My first Leica was an M4 aka "The Think Camera" with a Summicron 50/2 v3 in the seventies. I was a student then and i had to sell both to fund my studies. My only Leica sale in half a century, i always regretted it. Got an early 50/2 v4 with M4-2 in the eighties, then M3 DS, R4s and M6J, my last film body, with various M and R lenses. Negative films were not my cup of tea. What i liked most were Kodachrome transparencies that i watched with a Leitz Pradovit. When digital appeared i got a Digilux 1 in 2002 and entered the Leica forum the same year. M8.2, M240, digital CL and M11 were my later Leica bodies and i still use some M lenses of my youth on them. My favorite focal length is still 50mm, my favorite 50 is still an Elmar and i still use a tiny Leica combination case from the seventies. Boring story, i know, i know...

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Edited September 14, 2022 by lct

[MikeMyers]

Regarding Leica, at the end of the day, and you take your memory card to your computer, how is life different based on which camera or lens you used?  

A Ferrari is more fun to drive than a typical American car.  Is that the difference we are talking about here?

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[Kwesi]

2 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

Regarding Leica, at the end of the day, and you take your memory card to your computer, how is life different based on which camera or lens you used?  

A Ferrari is more fun to drive than a typical American car.  Is that the difference we are talking about here?

I think the OP's question/sentiment is really about one's unique relationship with their Leica camera and what that means to them.

[MikeMyers]

That's where I see things so differently?  How can one have a relationship with a tool?

Maybe with a race car, or a plane one is sitting inside of, but a camera?

So, what am I missing here?

[Kwesi]

1 minute ago, MikeMyers said:

That's where I see things so differently?  How can one have a relationship with a tool?

Maybe with a race car, or a plane one is sitting inside of, but a camera?

So, what am I missing here?

How is a race car different from a camera for you?

[SrMi]

15 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

That's where I see things so differently?  How can one have a relationship with a tool?

Maybe with a race car, or a plane one is sitting inside of, but a camera?

So, what am I missing here?

I often have 'relationships' with 'tools: tennis racquets, hammers, skis, cars, motorcycles, cameras, pens. 

[MikeMyers]

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33 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

How is a race car different from a camera for you?

Feedback.  If you are good enough, you can "feel" how much traction you've got, and when you are reaching the limit.  I never got that good on race cars or racing motorcycles, as I never wanted to get close to the limit.  You can "feel" these things in how the steering wheel responds, and in the response to the engine, but all of this is really the driver, not the racing car.  Street cars are designed to be soft and cushy, and minimize feedback.  Even so, the brand of car has nothing to do with it, just the "feedback sensation" which the driver learns.

For a camera, it does what I tell it to do, focus, shutter, ISO, aperture.  I can use the same settings on my M10 as with my D750 and get similar results.  Or, let the cameras decide, in which case the D750 is light-years ahead in using the automated features that I can turn on.

My 750 gets better results when doing that, all things being equal, unless I turn off all the automation, and in that case it's up to me to get good results with either.

 

The better you understand a tool, the better you can accomplish something.  

.....and my D750 dates back to 2014.  Doesn't matter, I can almost always get it to do what I want.  I want to be equally proficient with my M10, so I fully understand it, and how to get the most out of it.

[lct]

Nothing but a matter of tool to me. If Leica failed and, say, Zeiss succeeded instead i would use a digital Contax or Zeiss Ikon with the same pleasure probably.

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[Kwesi]

10 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

Feedback.  If you are good enough, you can "feel" how much traction you've got, and when you are reaching the limit.  I never got that good on race cars or racing motorcycles, as I never wanted to get close to the limit.  You can "feel" these things in how the steering wheel responds, and in the response to the engine, but all of this is really the driver, not the racing car.  Street cars are designed to be soft and cushy, and minimize feedback.  Even so, the brand of car has nothing to do with it, just the "feedback sensation" which the driver learns.

For a camera, it does what I tell it to do, focus, shutter, ISO, aperture.  I can use the same settings on my M10 as with my D750 and get similar results.  Or, let the cameras decide, in which case the D750 is light-years ahead in using the automated features that I can turn on.

My 750 gets better results when doing that, all things being equal, unless I turn off all the automation, and in that case it's up to me to get good results with either.

 

The better you understand a tool, the better you can accomplish something.  

.....and my D750 dates back to 2014.  Doesn't matter, I can almost always get it to do what I want.  I want to be equally proficient with my M10, so I fully understand it, and how to get the most out of it.

I think it comes down to trust. Not blind trust but trust that comes from understanding the fundamentals of one's craft. The M really shines best when used manually. I know from having read quite a few of your posts that you are having difficulty trusting the M with your vision. I think you just got back from India but didn't take your M with you. Maybe its just a sign that the M isn't your cup of tea despite your past success with film M's. Have you considered a Q or SL?

[evikne]

Even after five and a half years, I'm still in love with my M10. If my wife allowed it, I would still sleep with the camera on my bedside table. But she says I'm crazy. And she's probably right. 😄

[MikeMyers]

41 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

from having read quite a few of your posts that you are having difficulty trusting the M with your vision. I think you just got back from India but didn't take your M with you. Maybe its just a sign that the M isn't your cup of tea despite your past success with film M's. Have you considered a Q or SL?

Yes, that first part is correct, but it's my fault, not the camera's.  I will never learn the camera from YouTube and articles, I need to go out and be using it.  I don't plan to be switching around, other than needing to use the M8.2 when I want to capture infrared.  

I don't yet trust the M10, but what I'm really saying is I don't yet trust my ability with the M10.  The Nikon gets acceptable photos if I'm not even looking through the viewfinder.  I know what it's going to do, after using the various Nikon SLR cameras since 1959.  I know what I need to to, to get them to do what I want them to do.  A huge number of my photos in India are telephoto shots, often cropped.  Nikon solves this nicely with my 24-120 zoom.  

Two years ago I get pretty close with the M.  I wasn't too excited about taking a $15,000 camera kit with me to India, as I can't afford to replace it.  

It's all on me, not the camera.  I need to use it so much that I can work with it with my eyes closed, as I used to be able to do with my old film cameras.  

It's a tool, and like any tool, there is a learning curve.  The more I do, the more I learn.  And I want to do this without breaking the bank.  

 

43 minutes ago, evikne said:

Even after five and a half years, I'm still in love with my M10. If my wife allowed it, I would still sleep with the camera on my bedside table. But she says I'm crazy. And she's probably right. 😄

You've gone beyond any of my desires there, but what I do want, is to be able to wake up in the middle of the night, see something I want to photograph, and instantly set the camera to all the appropriate settings, that I've learned are what I need, and to adjust the camera without having to think about what I'm doing.  Lots of times I have just a few seconds to make the needed camera adjustments, and I want to already know what I want to use, and why.

My way of getting there - always carry the camera, and take lots of photos even if I delete them later, to get used to every setting on the M, and why I may or may not want to use it.

The photos - they better turn out good.  If not, it was me who screwed things up, not the camera.  I don't have a Nikon computer backing me up, all I have is my learned experiences.

[MikeMyers]

1 hour ago, lct said:

Nothing but a matter of tool to me. If Leica failed and, say, Zeiss succeeded instead i would use a digital Contax or Zeiss Ikon with the same pleasure probably.

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I would be plenty happy to use a Contax again, or a Zeiss camera.  No idea how I would feel about an M5.  Awesome tools, and awesome lenses too.  Wish they made comparable digital cameras nowadays.  ......I can't afford to look at that photo too long.  New thing you know, I'll be looking at KEH to buy one.

Good thing I don't trust eBay:   https://www.ebay.com/itm/133997753847?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28

But to be honest, now that Don has re-done my M3, I already have what I want, along with an M2 waiting for Don to have time to work on.  Still, I think the M10 is the perfect camera for me.

[evikne]

4 minutes ago, MikeMyers said:

You've gone beyond any of my desires there, but what I do want, is to be able to wake up in the middle of the night, see something I want to photograph, and instantly set the camera to all the appropriate settings, that I've learned are what I need, and to adjust the camera without having to think about what I'm doing.  Lots of times I have just a few seconds to make the needed camera adjustments, and I want to already know what I want to use, and why.

That's exactly the way I photograph too. Always completely manually. That's a big part of the fun of using a Leica. 

[MikeMyers]

13 minutes ago, evikne said:

.........That's a big part of the fun of using a Leica. 

I can't argue with that.  My other cameras have far too many annoying "things" that get in the way, even my Fuji X100f.  Most I can do without, but the built-in fill flash is very addictive.

My Contax II, then IIa, then Nikon SP, then Leica M2, all became a part of me.  Then I had to cover sports and racing, and the Leica got left in the dust.  Now I'm back to what I wanted to do a lifetime ago, and I'm pretty sure the M10 will do just what I need/want.

[Viv]

The Q2 just gets out of my way and lets me shoot.

My M11, not so much, but I like it.

[LikameLeica]

3 hours ago, MikeMyers said:

Feedback.  If you are good enough, you can "feel" how much traction you've got, and when you are reaching the limit.  I never got that good on race cars or racing motorcycles, as I never wanted to get close to the limit.  You can "feel" these things in how the steering wheel responds, and in the response to the engine, but all of this is really the driver, not the racing car.  Street cars are designed to be soft and cushy, and minimize feedback.  Even so, the brand of car has nothing to do with it, just the "feedback sensation" which the driver learns.

For a camera, it does what I tell it to do, focus, shutter, ISO, aperture.  I can use the same settings on my M10 as with my D750 and get similar results.  Or, let the cameras decide, in which case the D750 is light-years ahead in using the automated features that I can turn on.

My 750 gets better results when doing that, all things being equal, unless I turn off all the automation, and in that case it's up to me to get good results with either.

 

The better you understand a tool, the better you can accomplish something.  

.....and my D750 dates back to 2014.  Doesn't matter, I can almost always get it to do what I want.  I want to be equally proficient with my M10, so I fully understand it, and how to get the most out of it.

I like driving a stick shift manual car as opposed to an automatic transmission.  Best analogy I can think of given the context.  The M is more tactile where you manually and mechanically adjust settings.  The SL is similar when using the M lenses.  It is this interaction that I do not feel/get on other brands that I have used in the past.  In the end, if you like shooting on the D750, then that should be your tool of choice.  Each of us have a personal preference to the experience, that is what makes life great.  

[MikeMyers]

59 minutes ago, LikameLeica said:

........In the end, if you like shooting on the D750, then that should be your tool of choice...........

I like shooting on both, and to prevent what you suggested, both my D750 cameras will soon be gone.  I'm just waiting for the shipping address to send off #2.  Other than antiques, the only Nikon I will have left is my Df which is a classic, and I doubt I could replace it.  

The M10 has limitations, such as mounting my 300mm lens.

[jakontil]

5 hours ago, Viv said:

The Q2 just gets out of my way and lets me shoot.

My M11, not so much, but I like it.

I gave up on Q’es… my me time is with the M and shooting frenzy with it.. Q was great but manually experience, i found it best with M and sometimes i feel the slowness has sped me up

[grahamc]

I hate reading the instructions, and with Leica I don't need to 

Tongue in cheek but it does reflect how simple and intuitive the M's are in today's world.  Although we see screen less models such as MD (Typ. 262) and M10D as being 'stripped back and a nod to analogue', really any M is very much so , comparatively to other systems.

The optical viewfinder was a huge reason for using M - I was just fascinated butthe build quality and experience of that the first time I saw (through) one. 

It's for both these reasons also that I sit firmly in the 'no EVF' camp.  

 

 

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[MikeMyers]

6 hours ago, grahamc said:

Tongue in cheek but it does reflect how simple and intuitive the M's are in today's world.

To me, the opposite is true, but I do enjoy making the choices that need to be made - as when I might pick up the camera to shoot, I'll likely verify the ISO is what I want, set the aperture for my depth of field, probably put the shutter speed in (A) so I'll be using Aperture Priority, focus manually on what I specifically want in the best focus, and unless there are other unusual circumstances, compose my image and take the photo.  .....or change to a different focal length lens if needed.

With my D750, or my iPhone, it's raise camera to my eye, compose, and shoot....  and likely quickly zoom as needed.

On the Leica, I am capturing the image the way I have selected.  On the D750 all I need to do is compose, and apply pressure to the shutter release.

 

In my world, the D750 is effortless, and the M10 always has me thinking about my options.  A lot more thought goes into each image, but I think that's an advantage, providing I know what I want.  With my 24-85 or 24-120 lens on the D750, composing my image is so much easier.

(....meaning if I use the Leica properly, I will eventually get the image that *I* want.  Unless I take the time to do the same things on the D750, I will get the image that the camera decided to capture, but with the ability to zoom in or out as I wish.)

........and to further complicate things, while I prefer not to use flash, the D750 has a fill-flash built in.  

 

I probably should stop posting in this thread.  My D750's are gone, and going, and starting today my M10 will be dusted off, charged, and back in use.  The real answer I need is which gives me better photos, and I think the design and simplicity of the M10 will work just as well for me, and hopefully better.  Not to mention I prefer the smaller size and weight of the M10, and how quiet it is, and how much I loved my film M cameras for so long.  The M is less intrusive into the world around me, compared to the bigger and heavier and louder DSLR cameras. I used to take my M cameras everywhere - I certainly do not do that with the DSLR cameras......