How dangerous is it to update firmware on M10 ?

[Demigorgan]

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11 hours ago, Henners said:

I would do it without hesitation

I don’t get to what end? Nothing will change other than the version number. Why even take a risk anything will go wrong? 

 

11 hours ago, Henners said:

in all the many years as a techie type person I've maybe had one thing brick on me.

Thing is, bricking isn’t the only potential issue. 

The OP said everything is fine. I need nothing. Should I update? Why? 🤷🏻‍♂️ Just use your camera. It’s not like they gave you faster autofocus. 

if you need perspective control in your M10 and you don’t have it then fine, but if not then leave it alone. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Demigorgan

[Huss]

Someone on fredmiranda.com just updated the firmware on their 10r and now LV does not work.

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[Demigorgan]

42 minutes ago, Huss said:

Someone on fredmiranda.com just updated the firmware on their 10r and now LV does not work.

@Henners You see what I mean?

Like I say. It’s working? So leave it alone. Unless the update fixes an issue you have, or gives you some feature you MUST have, leave your camera alone.

So, @PhoToadcan laugh when I say that but, it’s the truth.

The only people who should be updating are

1) those who HAVE to use the perspective control feature and their camera doesn’t have it 

2) those who have a brand new lens and their camera is missing that particular profile 

Other than that, nobody else has to update  

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Edited November 23, 2022 by Demigorgan

[erl]

I guess all the naysayers also don't update their computer software either, because it is working, right?

Ask yourself this question, why would Leica (or any other manufacturer) go to the trouble of generating upgrades if it did NOTHING? My computer is set to upgrade Widows automatically and I am glad. Saves me the effort. I have gone through many Leica upgrades on M8, M9, M10 etc. Never a problem, provided one follows the clear instruction.

A lot of nameless glitches get fixed in upgrades, along with declared improvements. If you can't handle that, returning to film cameras could be a good option. Oh, then you would have to decide whether to use the 'New Improved' emulsion film or not! 😜

[Demigorgan]

3 hours ago, erl said:

Ask yourself this question, why would Leica (or any other manufacturer) go to the trouble of generating upgrades if it did NOTHING?

It does. It gives you a couple of new lens profiles. 🤷🏻‍♂️

3 hours ago, erl said:

My computer is set to upgrade Widows automatically and I am glad.

It updates windows it doesn’t upgrade it. And that’s Great. But unlike a camera you can’t just uninstall the last update if it didn’t work or caused problems. You update your Leica. Your LV stops working (see above), or worse, it bricks, and you’re screwed. It’s not like you can undo the update if it causes problems. 

 

3 hours ago, erl said:

I have gone through many Leica upgrades on M8, M9, M10 etc. Never a problem, provided one follows the clear instruction.

That doesn’t do the guy above you any good. His Leica is still broken after the update even if you’ve done yours a million times without issues. 

 

3 hours ago, erl said:

A lot of nameless glitches get fixed in upgrades, along with declared improvements.

Which ones in the last one? It just says “lens profiles”. If it fixed something then it should say so. Exactly what it does. And I’m pretty sure it does nothing except give you new lens profiles as it says. 
 

if your camera is working 100% then there are no “nameless glitches” to fix. This is the original post. Nothing is wrong with his camera. What glitches is he going to fix? He has none. 

3 hours ago, erl said:

I guess all the naysayers also don't update their computer software either, because it is working, right?

 

No. Computer (including phones and tablets) operating system updates are mainly essential security and vulnerability updates. No such thing with cameras. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Demigorgan

[erl]

So, one unhappy user has a brick for a camera, another commentator seriously disagrees with my observations and prefers his own.

Result: We all know where we stand and continue on with what we prefer. Oh! The brick problem. Well that probably needs to be sorted by Leica now. Did he follow instructions exactly for the upgrade? We will probably never know.

Makes using film look a breeze doesn't it.

[pedaes]

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@DemigorganDid you join on Monday to post in this specific thread?

I am another who always loads the latest FW as it is issued and have never had a single issue doing so. Only Leica know what enhancements a FW  version includes behind the headline 'New lens profile' etc.etc.

[Demigorgan]

1 hour ago, erl said:

So, one unhappy user

One? Who said one? You want me to post every single person who has been affected by updating their Leica? 🤣 I’ll get right on that. You can’t really believe only ONE person has had issues from a Leica firmware update… give me a break  

 

1 hour ago, erl said:

disagrees with my observations

Yes. I disagree that a camera update is the same as a computer update for the reasons I mentioned that are indisputable. One you can undo, the other you can’t. And most of these firmware updates don’t apply to most people as they offer absolutely nothing that most need. 

even updates that actually fix problems, they are for the ones who are experiencing the problem. If you’re not then it does nothing for you. 
 

1 hour ago, erl said:

We all know where we stand and continue on with what we prefer.

You always update. I don’t. This is clear. 

but that’s not what this thread is about. 

again someone said, and I’m paraphrasing. I bought an M10. I love it. It works great. Nothing is happening. I need nothing. Should I update my camera?

My answer is, leave it alone and go shoot.

Your answer is, if there’s an update, put it on your camera. 

Now he can decide… and that’s all there is to it.

1 hour ago, erl said:

Oh! The brick problem.

No. I already said it’s not about just “bricking”.  Most of the time it’s not “bricked”. Most of the time is:

“My camera was working fine. Then I updated it. Now it has problems”.

 

1 hour ago, erl said:

Did he follow instructions exactly for the upgrade?

Who is “he”? Nobody had their camera “bricked”. Not sure who you’re talking about. 

If you’re talking about Fred Miranda, yes. He knows how to update his Leica. 😅

He is a professional photographer who has a degree in computer science and also is a developer for photography software. I think he can handle updating his camera’s firmware 😅

He did and now he has problems. I guess you didn’t bother reading. That’s okay. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Demigorgan

[Demigorgan]

15 minutes ago, pedaes said:

I am another who always loads the latest FW as it is issued and have never had a single issue doing so.

Only Leica know what enhancements a FW  version includes behind the headline 'New lens profile' etc.etc.

Like I said, just because you haven’t had an issue that doesn’t help the people who have. 

and What “enhancements”? Who here has experienced “enhancements” with this firmware update? Have you? 🤷🏻‍♂️ I guess you haven’t since you said “only Leica knows”. That’s funny. We put secret enhancements in there that you will never see or find out what they are… so secret your camera will be exactly the same 😅…

by enhancements, do you mean bug fixes?

if you do, the OP already said he didn’t have any bugs or issues. 🤷🏻‍♂️

The best you can say about this update is “I updated my Leica and I noticed nothing different. All good”… so unless you have a lens that didn’t have a profile before, your camera will be exactly the same as it was. What a great update!

Except Fred’s camera isn’t the same. Now it doesn’t work. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Demigorgan

[pedaes]

20 minutes ago, Demigorgan said:

Like I said

You are very confrontational. Not the style of this Forum.

[Demigorgan]

17 minutes ago, pedaes said:

You are very confrontational.

You are very emotionally hypersensitive. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Demigorgan

[Mikep996]

I've been waiting for a firmware update since 1984 for my Leica M6 and they finally just released one!   😂

 

 

OK, seriously, I've updated my M10 and M10R as new updates came out and had absolutely no issues at all.

[Siriusone59]

I still haven't installed the earlier update that enables the visoflex 2.  Why?  My 020 works great and I didn't see anything else in the update description that I needed.  Being a bit hardheaded when told that I should or should not do something, I'll generally choose the opposite. 😉

  Experience has taught me that not all updates are a good thing.  I remember a strongly urged update for MacOS that caused several issues, only to be followed a few weeks later with another update that had in the description fixes to problems from previous update.

So I understand Demigorgan's POV especially after reading Fred Miranda's post.  Maybe a bit more time for a wait and see is a good idea.  I only wish Leica would be somewhat more descriptive about their updates.

[Huss]

My 10r works great.  I have too many lenses as it is, so I don't need any new profiles for lenses that I don't have and that I will never buy.

So, for me, no need to update anything.  If anyone else wants to update, that's up to them and matters to me not one whit.

 

[Demigorgan]

59 minutes ago, Siriusone59 said:

So I understand Demigorgan's POV especially after reading Fred Miranda's post.  Maybe a bit more time for a wait and see is a good idea.  I only wish Leica would be somewhat more descriptive about their updates.

Yes. Everyone I know that shoots other brands they wait at least a few weeks to install an update to see what’s happening with it. One time Fuji had to release an x.x.01 version of an update which basically was the previous version with another number so that people could revert back to the old firmware. Cameras were going crazy. Not for me because I skipped it. As I do with most updates. Because most updates really don’t apply to me. 

and now with Leica this is even more true. The cameras are so simple it’s mostly making them compatible with some new thing Leica released. 

We were just talking about it and bang. Happens to Fred Miranda. If it was a rare occurrence then wow…. That’s the coincidence of the century! 😀

Of course people do whatever they want. But the OP is asking and IMO the best thing for him is just to leave his M10 alone. He needs nothing. Everything is perfectly fine. So why start poking it? Just so the Camera Firmware version has a different number on it. 

[Herr Barnack]

I just updated the FW on my M10 mono - no problems at all.

In the past, I have updated the FW on my M-P 240 and Q2 - no problems at all.

FW updates are like do it yourself sensor cleaning:  If you follow the instructions to the letter, there should be no problems at all.  😊

 

[Demigorgan]

17 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

I just updated the FW on my M10 mono - no problems at all.

In the past, I have updated the FW on my M-P 240 and Q2 - no problems at all.

FW updates are like do it yourself sensor cleaning:  If you follow the instructions to the letter, there should be no problems at all.  😊

 

🤣🤣🤣

Okay. I don’t want to repeat myself but. That doesn’t help anyone who has a problem. 
 

You don’t think Fred has updated not only his Leica but all his other cameras without incident before? 

and what you just typed there in giant red letters isn’t true. Doesn’t matter how big the letters are.
😀

If I go download this stupid update and put it on my 10R it’ll probably be fine. And guess what? 

IT’S FINE NOW TOO! WITHOUT IT!!! In big bold red letters!!!! 
 

😅😅

The update process couldn’t be simpler. 

- Press YES to update.
- Wait for the camera to restart.
- You’re done. 

Can’t get any simpler than that. Who’s screwing this up? 😅

Updating cameras is a very simple process. We have all done it. The difference is I do it when I actually need the update which is very rarely. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Demigorgan

[Henners]

Life is dangerous, I'd argue that taking the camera outside the house is probably overall more statistically dangerous than updating the firmware.

Don't get me wrong, I can totally understand people not wanting to do it and even more so if they feel they have no reason to. I just know as a software dev that the little fixes that might not be listed anywhere can make a big difference overall.

Maybe something as simple as optimising the wifi file transfer so maybe now it uses less battery and is marginally faster or maybe they improved the time from turning the camera on to being able to take the first photo, or improved SD card compatibility/transfer speed. Small incremental improvements that add up to a more enjoyable experience overall that you don't necessarily notice consciously.

On the other hand, they might not have made any small fixes and just added a feature few people want or need, it's hard to know. 

Ultimately it's a personal choice that's based on your own comfort, the rest of us will just sway more in one direction than the other. I update all firmware asap, that's just me though and I would say that's more risky than most people need to be but I like cutting edge even if it's a bit pointless.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Henners

[Demigorgan]

11 minutes ago, Henners said:

Life is dangerous, I'd argue that taking the camera outside the house is probably overall more statistically dangerous than updating the firmware.

I never said it was “dangerous”. It’s unnecessary. 

Let’s put it this way. You updated yours. What’s different about it? Other than the version number when you go into the menu. You tell me. 

 

11 minutes ago, Henners said:

I just know as a software dev that the little fixes that might not be listed anywhere can make a big difference overall.

So did it? You tell me. What did it fix that you needed fixing?

I already said if you have issues with your camera then update. 

11 minutes ago, Henners said:

Maybe something as simple as optimising the wifi file transfer so maybe now it uses less battery and is marginally faster or maybe they improved the time from turning the camera on to being able to take the first photo, or improved SD card compatibility/transfer speed.

So have you had improvements in any of those things so far?

All those things are actually quite important and benefits NOONE to have it omitted from the release notes. 

IMO this update does absolutely nothing more than exactly what it says. NEW LENS PROFILES. 

We can invite someone into this conversation that has connections with Leica and we can hear from them directly if this update contains these famous super secret improvements they don’t want to tell anyone about. 

But I don’t think you can make it more compatible with more cards through a firmware update. 

 

11 minutes ago, Henners said:

just added a feature few people want or need

That’s exactly what this update is. They release a new lens. So they want the M10’s to have the profile. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Demigorgan

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[Henners]

Sorry, I wasn't quoting you with the 'life is dangerous', I wasn't actually responding to anything in this thread directly.