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Intriguing Leih-kamera

Giuliobigazzi
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Giuliobigazzi

Giuliobigazzi

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This in an interesting one.. picked up this Leica ii Leih-kamera that has some minor but rare differences. If you look closely you will notice the absence of the d.r.p in the top plate, and a more rounded detail around the viewfinder screw. These details I have only seen on serial 72400, prototype camera, which coincidentally is 1 below my example. The fact that d.r.p is missing, and that this a is something cast in a mold, makes me think that this was first produced for a non patented model, then repurposed for a loaner camera..only speculation of course. Has anyone on here got one of these with the same characteristics, perhaps with a very close serial?

i’ve emailed the archives to try and find out more from the shipping records but I’ve been told I’m in for a long wait!

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jerzy

jerzy

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this is indeed very interesting! Shall you receive delivery date from Archive pls lte me (us ) know. There is a lot of mystery around early IIs. Most probably there are no records anymore when which serial was build, but delivery date give at least indication about possible build time.  And for ex 73810 was delivered on 17.02.1932 while 71207 on 11.04.1932. And I have more examples like this. Recently I had a chance to inspect few very early IIs and detected another interesting fetaure. I wrote (in German) an article for Vidom, after it will be published I may share it with other LF members who are not members of Leica Historica in Germany

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PG Black nickel

PG Black nickel

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Hi,
One of my IID "couplex" has a fairly close serial number 72489, but in all the details of the series, did you notice that yours has no screws on the front of the top cover! 
Probably a bestriebsk before its time!

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Giuliobigazzi

Giuliobigazzi

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Yes, looking more closely I think this leih-kamera would have originally been a Leica I later upgraded using this experimental top plate, or the camera used to experiment something in the top plate. I noticed that the rangefinder window has a 1:1 magnification which is different to my other barnacks. Is this normal?

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willeica

willeica

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I hope you get what you want. I looked at the books for 1931 and 1932 in the Wetzlar Archives in June, but I did not really have time to do all the study I wanted to do. I did , however, find one of my own cameras there.

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What I was looking for was whether there was evidence of parallel productions of Is and IIs in early 1932, but what I saw, in the time that I had, was that, once 1932 commenced, production switched to the II and almost everything I saw in the register was a LYKUP ( II Mod D with 50 Elmar). By April they had reached over 78950 as the list above shows, my camera is 78952. So, production of the II took off in a very big way and demand must have been very high by the standards of those days. 

On most lists I have seen, the first II Model D was said to be SN 71200 from early 1932, but I did not get time to check that. 1931 and 1932 deliveries are in separate books. One question which occurs is whether the Leih Kameras were recorded separately for control purposes.

If you do not get a response from the Archives, please get back to me and I will get the details for you and, as well, I will ask for 71200 and the first entry in the 1932 book, if they are not the same.

William 

 

 

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Giuliobigazzi

Giuliobigazzi

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The question remains as to whether the leih-kamera serial is different to the experimental top plate and if this conjunction has been recorded, thus 72401 showing as a leih-kamera.

William that’s very kind of you, I’m not sure how long the archives will take but if they don’t I will certainly take you up on the offer of checking for me. 

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PG Black nickel

PG Black nickel

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On all the Leica IID's I have, the rangefinder (which is yellow) is at 1.1 but the viewfinder should be at 0.50 and yours would be at 1.1?
Is the pin on the sole the small model or the large one (CF picture attached)?

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jerzy

jerzy

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some facts: change from small pin (bottom plate) to bigger one was from 112xxx (July 1933).
Top plate with 6 screws was from approx 39500 (June 1930). Camera 72401 has 4 screws only and this leads me to believe that from the very beginning this was an experimental camera, not intended to be sold and as such there might no entry in delivery records. And for assembly the existing parts were used, not necessarily the contemporary ones (like top plate)

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PG Black nickel

PG Black nickel

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So it seems to me extraordinary... but if you read well as I do the serial number of the Leica appearing on the French advertising leaflet of April 1932, is well it is the 72401...! to be confirmed of course the photo being rather mediocre.
But it has all the characteristics of a classic Leica II.
I think that it was a camera dedicated to the studio of the communication agency of the time for their publicity and that it made a return to the Leitz factory and that it became a camera on which were tested new materials or spare parts...

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PG Black nickel

PG Black nickel

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They are indeed pictures, but retouched as was done at the time.
Attached is the cover page of the catalogue, probably the first on the Leica IID, it was printed in Germany.

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willeica

willeica

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1 hour ago, PG Black nickel said:

So it seems to me extraordinary... but if you read well as I do the serial number of the Leica appearing on the French advertising leaflet of April 1932, is well it is the 72401...! to be confirmed of course the photo being rather mediocre.
But it has all the characteristics of a classic Leica II.
I think that it was a camera dedicated to the studio of the communication agency of the time for their publicity and that it made a return to the Leitz factory and that it became a camera on which were tested new materials or spare parts...

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It has DRP, but retouching was the order of the day back then and for many years afterwards. I have shown an example here where a Summitar became a Summicron without even changing the serial number! Publicity material is just that and no more. 

William 

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Giuliobigazzi

Giuliobigazzi

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Just thought I’d dig out my old booklets and.. yep! Same drawing, same serial! Incredible 

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Giuliobigazzi

Giuliobigazzi

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Interestingly, I notice that on this retouched photo on the Leica-wiki this camera no73511(?)has no d.r.p. Just like on mine. 

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alan mcfall

alan mcfall

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My earliest II's are 71246 and 71277, nothing special.  One has Germany in shoe, both have DRP and normal front view finder window surround. I don't have delivery dates, but should be Feb. 1932.

 

 

 

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