New Leica M6 Film Camera

[Matlock]

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2 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

If that someone had IQ higher than room temperature that would surely not be the case.

Sadly it is a fact that negative posts do have an effect in some cases. Quite often those negative posts appear and then nothing more is heard from that person which does make me question the validity of some of them. It is not just this forum that has those problems though. I believe that the vast majority of Leica owners experience none of the various reported defects (although there are some very valid complaints made, which is as it should be) and some of those owners actually get out and take photos with their cameras. I had a problem with my M-A but it turned out that the problem was with the idiot behind the camera (i.e. me) and I am pretty sure that quite a few of the reported defects stem from the same source.

[Al Brown]

13 minutes ago, Matlock said:

I am pretty sure that quite a few of the reported defects stem from the same source.

Things like repeatedly scratching film on multiple copies of brand new cameras despite cleaning all surfaces, titanium paint of brand new cameras chipping, diaphragms of brand new lenses collapsing and brand new M11s being suddenly bricked and not turning on are most definitely not user errors, no matter how hard one believes in fairytales. The "it has never happened to me, so it surely does not exist" stance is also a very common one here on the forum.
I also see no issues with people sporting below-the-room-temperature IQ believing ALL Leicas do that and running away. I am neither employed at Leica to care, nor a fanatic fanboy to defend the brand with my life. Let them. Who cares.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Al Brown

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[Matlock]

1 minute ago, Al Brown said:

Things like repeatedly scratching film on multiple copies of brand new cameras despite cleaning all surfaces, titanium paint of brand new cameras chipping, diaphragms of brand new lenses collapsing and brand new M11s being suddenly bricked and not turning on are most definitely not user errors, no matter how hard one believes in fairytales. The "it has never happened to me, so it surely does not exist" stance is also a very common here on the forum.

We get these claims all the time and some are entirely legitimate, however quite a few are merely hearsay. In spite of how it sounds, so far there have only been two VERIFIED cases of film scratching but plenty of claims. I think I made it quite clear that that I accept that some problems do exist but they are not as common as the posts on this forum would suggest.

[Huss]

47 minutes ago, Mikep996 said:

I've owned 4 film and 3 digital Leicas - M2, M6, M6TTL, M7,  M10, M10R, Q2.  None of them have ever given me any problem at all.  My 1984 first batch M6 has never received a service of any kind and is still working perfectly.

I'm not saying that the complaints are overblown or incorrect, just saying that on forums it is often only the complaints that anyone hears about.  As has been said, if someone was interested in buying a Leica and came to this forum for information, they would probably come to the conclusion that Jenny's guidance was appropriate when she hollered:  "Run Forrest, RUN!!!!" 😱

That is why I am asking anyone who has a new M6 (or MP I guess) to come forward and let us know of their experiences.  It is the only sampling that we have, but seeing that this is a Leica enthusiast site, it still is a good sampling since it is populated by Leica enthusiasts!

Right now the count is 11 cameras reported - 7 good, 4 defective.

And that then leads to the second part of this issue.  Leica ships brand new defective cameras which they have claimed have gone through a rigorous QA process. And deals with it by saying the new owners have to wait about 6 weeks for a repair, when the right thing to do is just replace them.  Don't have a replacement stash?  Well, that's on Leica.  But of course they put it on the new owner.

There is no excuse for that repair timeline.  Understaffed?  Hire and train staff.  It's what every other industry does.  But Leica gets a pass because the fan bois deem this acceptable.

The funny thing is that in a way I am a Leica fan boi - I currently use 1 M3, 2 M7s, 1 M-A, 1 MP, 1 Md-A, 1 M5, 1 1F, 1 R9, 1 M10-r.  This is because they are fantastic cameras to use - there is nothing else like them.

The difference being I am open and honest about how things are and should be.  Instead of deflecting real issues as user error or one offs.

[LocalHero1953]

On 1/10/2023 at 9:17 AM, Al Brown said:

I find amusing sporadic gaslighting attempts here that the bad samples are just a tiny fraction of production.

When reason fails, try insults.🙄

[mshchem]

I got no problems with my new MP or M11. The M11 I purchased after most of the problems were resolved. 

 

I do find it ridiculous that Huss got a new flagship camera that scratches film,  and that rather than sending him new one he has to wait 2 months for repairs. 

[Jewl]

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vor 14 Stunden schrieb mshchem:

I got no problems with my new MP or M11. The M11 I purchased after most of the problems were resolved. 

 

I do find it ridiculous that Huss got a new flagship camera that scratches film,  and that rather than sending him new one he has to wait 2 months for repairs. 

That's what I am really mad about. You buy a new camera, then you have to fight that someone trusts you (doesn't declare you as crazy) that something is wrong and start looking into it. But it is always treated as if it is normal that a new camera needs to go to service in the first 4 weeks... No apologies, no compensation, nothing! At least you can consider yourself happy that it was under warranty, woohoo!

Otherwise, the real leicaman would rather pay the service fee because free / inexpensive things cannot be good! 

[madNbad]

When this thread began the was much excitement and speculation. Leica was developing a NEW FILM CAMERA, what would it be and how long before it actually arrived. Now that it's been with us for a while with just enough flaws to make you wonder if the precision production video was written by ChatGBT. Loose lens mounts, sticky ISO dials and the mystery scratches caused by who knows what. At the five thousand Euros/Pounds/Dollars mark, buyers should be receiving a flawless product. It not like there are new M6s rolling off the production line  and into a shipping crate and Leica knows the buyers are willing to wait for the product because there is nothing else like it. Take the time to check them, pull one off the line and run some film through it but deliver a camera that works right out of the box. That's what customers expect frim the brand and they're main job should be to deliver it.

I still think a weather resistant, composite body CM would have grabbed a much bigger share of the market. I would've bought one.

[Huss]

1 hour ago, madNbad said:

... Take the time to check them, pull one off the line and run some film through it but deliver a camera that works right out of the box. That's what customers expect frim the brand and they're main job should be to deliver it.

..

The insult to injury part is after the camera was returned to them to be fixed, they did not bother to take the time to check if it was fixed!  This completely lackadaisical approach at the manufacturing AND service level is what makes it so disconcerting.

It really is as if the end user is not actually meant to use it as a camera, but make a youtube unboxing video for clicks, then place it on a shelf.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Huss

[madNbad]

1 hour ago, Huss said:

The insult to injury part is after the camera was returned to them to be fixed, they did not bother to take the time to check if it was fixed!  This completely lackadaisical approach at the manufacturing AND service level is what makes it so disconcerting.

It really is as if the end user is not actually meant to use it as a camera, but make a youtube unboxing video for clicks, then place it on a shelf.

It really is unfortunate to have what could be a great camera hobbled by defects. If the same lack approach had been taken with the early M4-2 problems, it would have been the end of the M camera. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, how many of the new M6s were destined for the safe deposit box and never see a roll of film. Apparently, having a recognizable name is now more important than a reliable product. I wonder if the testers and influencers who had pre release copies ever encountered or, more importantly, cared about the problems that have been reported.