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New Leica M6 Film Camera


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36 minutes ago, logan2z said:

FWIW, I was looking at the M2 manual last night and the section on loading the film says to advance the film with the camera back open in order to ensure that it's engaged with the sprockets, then to close the back and replace the baseplate.  Not sure why the instructions changed for the quick-load system, but maybe it's the case that people are continuing the practice that was specified for the older cameras.  

The biggest difference is the baseplate is an integral part of the quick loading. The wheel on the baseplate ensures the film is aligned and when viewing the loading through the door, the film can become misaligned. It also wastes more film by fiddling around and not just dropping it in and replacing the baseplate.

When I owned a M2, I would often carry a roll of film with the leader attached to an extra spool. Rewind the film, drop the cassette, pull the spool out of the camera and drop in the prepared spool. Replace the baseplate and wind. I’m convinced that my problems with a Rapid Load kit in the M2 were caused by not simply replacing the baseplate.

Edited by madNbad
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45 minutes ago, madNbad said:

The biggest difference is the baseplate is an integral part of the quick loading. The wheel on the baseplate ensures the film is aligned and when viewing the loading through the door, the film can become misaligned.

Ahh, that makes sense.  Thanks for the info.

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1 hour ago, logan2z said:

FWIW, I was looking at the M2 manual last night and the section on loading the film says to advance the film with the camera back open in order to ensure that it's engaged with the sprockets, then to close the back and replace the baseplate.  Not sure why the instructions changed for the quick-load system, but maybe it's the case that people are continuing the practice that was specified for the older cameras.  

The quick load system used the tulip thing to engage, and it has a spring mechanism on the opposite side of the tulip.  It is quite different to the M2/M3.

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1 minute ago, Huss said:

The quick load system used the tulip thing to engage, and it has a spring mechanism on the opposite side of the tulip.  It is quite different to the M2/M3.

Right, understood.  I'm just wondering if people are applying what they did for the M2/M3 to cameras with the quick load system and that's where the "bad habits" are coming from.

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3 minutes ago, logan2z said:

Right, understood.  I'm just wondering if people are applying what they did for the M2/M3 to cameras with the quick load system and that's where the "bad habits" are coming from.

I think it is more from following bad advice.  Googling 'how to load a Leica'.  If you do that, and find Tamarkin's video (they are a big Leica shop in Chicago), it is, er, umm, surprising how bad his advice is.  Basically will turn your 36 exp roll of film into a 33 exp roll...  And that is a Leica shop, ignoring Leica's v simple and v excellent instructions!

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2 minutes ago, Huss said:

I think it is more from following bad advice.  Googling 'how to load a Leica'.  If you do that, and find Tamarkin's video (they are a big Leica shop in Chicago), it is, er, umm, surprising how bad his advice is.  Basically will turn your 36 exp roll of film into a 33 exp roll...  And that is a Leica shop, ignoring Leica's v simple and v excellent instructions!

Somewhere in this thread, I mentioned watching a couple of how to load your Leica M videos. Most were five to seven minutes long and full of misinformation. There was one, as Huss has pointed out numerous times, followed the instructions. It was a thirty second video.

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FWIW the M3 manual says that once you've inserted the film into the camera, check that the film is engaged with the sprocket, close the back, shut the base plate, rewind the film until you feel some tension, and then wind on twice until the dial is at zero. I get more than 36 exposures this way. If the dots don't spin you've done it wrong. There's no winding on with the back open. If the film and sprockets don't line up I rewind the film until they do, then close the back and shut the base plate and then wind on.

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22 minutes ago, williamj said:

FWIW the M3 manual says that once you've inserted the film into the camera, check that the film is engaged with the sprocket, close the back, shut the base plate, rewind the film until you feel some tension, and then wind on twice until the dial is at zero. I get more than 36 exposures this way. If the dots don't spin you've done it wrong. There's no winding on with the back open. If the film and sprockets don't line up I rewind the film until they do, then close the back and shut the base plate and then wind on.

Interesting that the M2 and M3 manuals describe the loading process differently.  The M2 manual also doesn't mention turning the rewind knob to eliminate any slack in the film cassette.  I do this out of habit anyway. 

Here's the relevant section from the M2 manual:

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49 minutes ago, logan2z said:

Interesting that the M2 and M3 manuals describe the loading process differently.  The M2 manual also doesn't mention turning the rewind knob to eliminate any slack in the film cassette.  I do this out of habit anyway. 

Here's the relevant section from the M2 manual:

It is very strange to see the difference. To prove I'm not making stuff up, I enclose the relevant section of the M3 manual I mentioned. It is for double stroke camera, so when it says advance the film by two strokes it means one frame. Cheers.

M3 DS loading.tiff

Edited by williamj
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54 minutes ago, williamj said:

It is very strange to see the difference. To prove I'm not making stuff up, I enclose the relevant section of the M3 manual I mentioned. It is for double stroke camera, so when it says advance the film by two strokes it means one frame. Cheers.

 

It is not really that strange, the M3 was introduced in 1954 and the M2 in 1957, thoughts changed over those 3 years and the M2 instructions reflect that.

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2 hours ago, williamj said:

To prove I'm not making stuff up, I enclose the relevant section of the M3 manual I mentioned.

I didn't think you were making anything up, I had read the M3 manual and knew you were describing what it said accurately. 

As @Matlocksaid, Leica's thoughts on how best to load film must have evolved over time. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

After the excitement and speculation about a new film camera from Leica, buyers stepped up, paying a premium price, waited for delivery only to discover the camera has flaws that should have been corrected. For a company that has built its reputation on quality, shipping a camera that scratches film or has shutter problems is a warning flag. Wether it’s in the design, assembly or even faulty parts from the suppliers, it would be better for all if they made the announcement no more M6s will be shipped until the problems are corrected and the buyer will receive a camera that meets the quality expectations. 
We all realize the film camera production from Leica is a very small portion of their catalog but none the less, the people buying and using the analog bodies are some of the best ambassadors for the brand. It’s better to hear, I love my new Leica as opposed to They finally fixed it.

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On 1/5/2023 at 1:16 AM, madNbad said:

After the excitement and speculation about a new film camera from Leica, buyers stepped up, paying a premium price, waited for delivery only to discover the camera has flaws that should have been corrected. For a company that has built its reputation on quality, shipping a camera that scratches film or has shutter problems is a warning flag. Wether it’s in the design, assembly or even faulty parts from the suppliers, it would be better for all if they made the announcement no more M6s will be shipped until the problems are corrected and the buyer will receive a camera that meets the quality expectations. 
We all realize the film camera production from Leica is a very small portion of their catalog but none the less, the people buying and using the analog bodies are some of the best ambassadors for the brand. It’s better to hear, I love my new Leica as opposed to They finally fixed it.

It was not just brand new M6 and MP cameras scratching the film... It was also paint chipping on the brand new M-A Titanium Special Editions for 20K, new Summiluxes FLE II Close Focus collapsing on the inside and other disturbing stuff. Not cool at all.

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vor 10 Stunden schrieb Al Brown:

It was not just brand new M6 and MP cameras scratching the film... It was also paint chipping on the brand new M-A Titanium Special Editions for 20K, new Summiluxes FLE II Close Focus collapsing on the inside and other disturbing stuff. Not cool at all.

I agree, they have a general quality issue! If I look back, 4 cameras I had for the last 6 years, all of them needed to be at least once (my M11 was 3 times in Wetzlar) at the Customer Care. If the price tag wasn't that hefty, I might be able to accept this. But if I think of any camera I had before, does not matter how expensive (they were rather very cheap as compared to Leica), I have never seen such quality problems. None of them ever had to be serviced (I am not a professional) - for example, my Canon 400D from 2006 is still fully functional and it received way less care than any of my Leicas!

Of course, I am not a lifelong Leica user and therefore cannot judge whether this worsened over time, but still, I don't think this can be normal. I really abstain from buying any further cameras in the close future as this costs me beside of time (I cannot take photos and need to deal with the situation of finding out how to reproduce issues) also a lot of nerves. I would be just grateful if those cameras I have work as expected/promised. Way to go...

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These things do happen with every manufacturer, maybe we are overblowing it but the problems surely do exist. I find amusing sporadic gaslighting attempts here that the bad samples are just a tiny fraction of production. Not many new M6 cameras and 35 FLE II Close Focus lenses have been produced yet. Teething problems? Perhaps...

 

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I've owned 4 film and 3 digital Leicas - M2, M6, M6TTL, M7,  M10, M10R, Q2.  None of them have ever given me any problem at all.  My 1984 first batch M6 has never received a service of any kind and is still working perfectly.

I'm not saying that the complaints are overblown or incorrect, just saying that on forums it is often only the complaints that anyone hears about.  As has been said, if someone was interested in buying a Leica and came to this forum for information, they would probably come to the conclusion that Jenny's guidance was appropriate when she hollered:  "Run Forrest, RUN!!!!" 😱

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6 minutes ago, Mikep996 said:

I've owned 4 film and 3 digital Leicas - M2, M6, M6TTL, M7,  M10, M10R, Q2.  None of them have ever given me any problem at all.  My 1984 first batch M6 has never received a service of any kind and is still working perfectly.

I'm not saying that the complaints are overblown or incorrect, just saying that on forums it is often only the complaints that anyone hears about.  As has been said, if someone was interested in buying a Leica and came to this forum for information, they would probably come to the conclusion that Jenny's guidance was appropriate when she hollered:  "Run Forrest, RUN!!!!" 😱

Very true. The only Leica I have had any trouble with was my M7 which I bought used, problem with the shutter speed dial was quickly fixed by Leica and the camera fully upgraded so I had what was in effect a new camera. No troubles at all with my M6TTL, MP3, M-A. M10-D or M10-R. Also a few other used models.

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24 minutes ago, Mikep996 said:

if someone was interested in buying a Leica and came to this forum for information, they would probably come to the conclusion that Jenny's guidance was appropriate when she hollered:  "Run Forrest, RUN!!!!" 😱

If that someone had IQ higher than room temperature that would surely not be the case.

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