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New Leica M6 Film Camera


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27 minutes ago, jukka said:

Yup, a reissue of m6 would make sense from the marketing perspective. For Leica, digital is all about performance and analogue is all about nostalgia. And never the two shall meet.

A customer is not supposed to be confused which one to get for what purpose. Thus, ideally, one has both; the first for actual use and the second for Sunday driving once a year.

For that reason, if there’s going to be a new film m, it’s hardly cheap nor practical.

How does a re-issue of the M6 make sense when it was replaced by the better MP?

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9 hours ago, logan2z said:

Interesting idea. 

I don't know about the rest of the world but I'm not aware of any 'white glove' level developing labs in the US - at least I haven't found any yet and I've tried some of the ones that often come highly recommended.  For my $50, I'd expect more than a hard box with a Leica logo on it.  I 'd actually expect my negatives to be free from water spots, scratches and other inexplicable defects - I can produce those myself for a fraction of the price :) Of course most 'hybrid' shooters wouldn't care, they'd just clone that stuff out in Lightroom.

you should definitely try them

https://thirdmanphotostudio.com

 

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I'd prefer it if Leica did not make a replica of the M6. They can do better than that with components from the M10/M11.

Use the new shutter (plus AE) and rangefinder. Add film advance mechanism. Put a battery compartment on the bottom of the camera.

Same height as the M6, but with updated internals as capable as the M7, and no hack job battery compartment. The perfect 21st century rangefinder.

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18 minutes ago, raizans said:

The perfect 21st century rangefinder.

I indeed would be happy with an MP that has the new m10/11 viewfinder and hybrid all mechanical gears with electronic ones as well for aperture priority. They could call it M7-p or more realistically MP-2. 

Not going to happen though, but happy to be proven wrong. I'll be the first one to place a pre-order and throw € 5k at leicas direction.  

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The fact that this thread is being rapidly contributed to shows that a lot of us - including me - are interested to know what, if anything, is in the works. The M6, on the used market, hovered around the £600 mark for at least 20 years. At that time you could get an M2/M3/M4 for a little less. Then sometime after about 2017, the prices rocketed. But the M6 price rocketed a lot more than for the classic Wetzlar non-metered bodies.

You'd be lucky to get a clean, boxed M6 for less than £2500 now. An M2/M3/M4 in silver chrome goes for a bit more than £1000. I think the reasons for the crazy price of an M6 now are two-fold. 1) It has a meter, and 2) It has been hugely hyped online, mostly on YouTube. The blogger called Grainydays - who I think is brilliant - played no small part in this. Some of these YouTubers have massive followings.

But also, the M6 just looks nice. The design is less fussy and old-fashioned than the earlier M cameras, and it's very smart with the Leitz/Leica red dot. It's also much newer. I think if you're new to film photography, you might just find yourself wanting an M6 more than the other models. Me, I think the M2 is a better camera, but that counts for nothing.

So I'm sure Leica must have noticed what has been happening on the used market. After all, the used market is one of Leica's competitors. What will they do, how can you redesign/cheapen/market a 'new' film M body? Will they use magnesium instead of brass for the top plate? Will it have the red dot (I think yes)? Will they give it a larger shutter speed dial like the digital versions? Is there nothing in the works, and this is merely a rumour?

It's puzzling and, I suspect, a reason why there is so much speculation.

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6 hours ago, Huss said:

How does a re-issue of the M6 make sense when it was replaced by the better MP?

How does an MP make sense when its M2-style film advance and rewind knob were replaced with improved versions in the better M4? How does ripping the meter out to make the M-A make sense? Of course none of these things are about technical improvements, which are pretty much irrelevant in a market where (apart from the meter) little of consequence has changed since the 1960s. It's all about what will sell to niche customers who like the retro experience, and now we have come full circle and the M6 is considered retro. I very much doubt they'd drop the MP's improved meter and more flare-resistant rangefinder, or revert to zinc. Much easier (and preferable) to do what Rupert suggests above and build what the a la carte programme would have labelled an 'MP' variant, complete with modern wind and rewind options, but call it an M6.

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23 minutes ago, colint544 said:

I think the reasons for the crazy price of an M6 now are two-fold.

As you correctly mentioned it is the M6's classic looks, design, popularity and usability that made it a super-hyped item soaring in price on the second hand market. No post '75 Classic analog M was as marketed and constantly featured in "modern" photo magazines of the 80s and 90s as the classic M6 with all its variations, iterations, numerous special editions etc.

Edited by Al Brown
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8 hours ago, Al Brown said:

No post '75 Classic analog M was as marketed and constantly featured in "modern" photo magazines of the 80s and 90s as the classic M6 with all its variations, iterations, numerous special editions etc.

As pointed out, the m6 has both a meter and the iconic looks, thus the “recent” surge in popularity. 

But, in general, it’s a bit odd to discuss about “crazy price increases”, when in fact with the introduction of the digital bodies, film bodies merely momentarily over-depreciated.

Now that the initial digital hype is over, so to speak, film bodies are being valued in the market more or less according to their actual value.

I know that this is a controversial view. However, if you compare the price of a used m6 with a similarly performing new mp, then, in my view, the current prices do not seem that crazy. In fact, prices pre-2017 (or thereabouts) were crazy low due to the novelty of digital.

I do hope that the good people at Leica would realise that analogue is not going away, and that development of film bodies would have value, also other than as a kind of retro nostalgia gimmicks next to their actual “proper” bodies.

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I’m a bit mystified by all this.

We have the M-A (basic, analogue camera) and MP (same with meter, but still manual).  What would a new film camera add?  I can only think of aperture priority.  How would such a camera increase market share?  Surely, only if it was cheaper than the M-A & MP.

The M-A/MP cameras still follow the original M3 design, with removable bottom plate and top hinged back and fiddly film loading.  It is also hand assembled.  Surely, the biggest cost is the hand assembly?  Is there a simpler, more cost effective means of fabricating a film camera, with aperture priority, an M mount and rangefinder?  I don’t know the answer to these questions, but it seems to me that if a new film camera is to be cheaper, and attract new buyers, it needs to be more accessible.

It would also protect the premium position of the existing film cameras.

Given the choice between the simple, side hinged back of the FM2 or Leica’s baseplate and top hinge, I’d take the FM2 any day of the week.  Not sure that new entrants would care about the holy-grail of the M3 for Leica traditionalists.  What would a clean sheet approach film camera look like, and how could it be made cheaper … obviously, it would still need to look like an M3!

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3 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’m a bit mystified by all this.

We have the M-A (basic, analogue camera) and MP (same with meter, but still manual).  What would a new film camera add?  I can only think of aperture priority.  How would such a camera increase market share?  Surely, only if it was cheaper than the M-A & MP.

The M-A/MP cameras still follow the original M3 design, with removable bottom plate and top hinged back and fiddly film loading.  It is also hand assembled.  Surely, the biggest cost is the hand assembly?  Is there a simpler, more cost effective means of fabricating a film camera, with aperture priority, an M mount and rangefinder?  I don’t know the answer to these questions, but it seems to me that if a new film camera is to be cheaper, and attract new buyers, it needs to be more accessible.

It would also protect the premium position of the existing film cameras.

Given the choice between the simple, side hinged back of the FM2 or Leica’s baseplate and top hinge, I’d take the FM2 any day of the week.  Not sure that new entrants would care about the holy-grail of the M3 for Leica traditionalists.  What would a clean sheet approach film camera look like, and how could it be made cheaper … obviously, it would still need to look like an M3!

On page three of this thread, I posed the question of what if Leica produced a new M camera with a titanium frame and a composite body? Even with an aluminum top plate, manufacturing cost would be reduced and if they used the same electronic shutter as the M7 it could be the M camera for the next generation.

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1 hour ago, jukka said:

As pointed out, the m6 has both a meter and the iconic looks, thus the “recent” surge in popularity. 

But, in general, it’s a bit odd to discuss about “crazy price increases”, when in fact with the introduction of the digital bodies, film bodies merely momentarily over-depreciated.

Now that the initial digital hype is over, so to speak, film bodies are being valued in the market more or less according to their actual value.

I know that this is a controversial view. However, if you compare the price of a used m6 with a similarly performing new mp, then, in my view, the current prices do not seem that crazy. In fact, prices pre-2017 (or thereabouts) were crazy low due to the novelty of digital.

I do hope that the good people at Leica would realise that analogue is not going away, and that development of film bodies would have value, also other than as a kind of retro nostalgia gimmicks next to their actual “proper” bodies.

Agree with the substance of what you say here. It looks as though the M6 and its siblings were undervalued, or underappreciated, in the marketplace for a very long time, and that prices now have risen to reflect their true worth. We're at a point now where a black chrome M4, or a 0.85 viewfinder M6 are very close to the price of a brand new M-A or MP.

Maybe Leica have noticed this and decided that they can take a slice from the used market with a brand new camera. 

Edited by colint544
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Here are two cameras for sale right now at Red Dot Cameras. One is brand new, the other is half a century old.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited by colint544
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16 hours ago, Pierre68 said:

you should definitely try them

https://thirdmanphotostudio.com

 

Was curious, took a look. Their scanning costs are some of the most ridiculous prices I have ever seen. “Premium high-res” scans for 120 film cost $10 a frame or $100 a roll if you’re shooting 6x7. Must be some real premium scanner they’re using for your scans right?

Nope. It’s an Epson V850. Wow.

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21 minutes ago, Sunyforreal said:

Was curious, took a look. Their scanning costs are some of the most ridiculous prices I have ever seen. “Premium high-res” scans for 120 film cost $10 a frame or $100 a roll if you’re shooting 6x7. Must be some real premium scanner they’re using for your scans right?

Nope. It’s an Epson V850. Wow.

An Epson v850?  Wow, lol.  And a Pakon for lower rez.

basically they are using amateur quality gear that gives amateur results, but charge super premium prices.

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6 minutes ago, Huss said:

An Epson v850?  Wow, lol.  And a Pakon for lower rez.

basically they are using amateur quality gear that gives amateur results, but charge super premium prices.

Right? I know someone who will proper drum scans on a Heidelberg Tango drum scanner for not significantly more than their prices. Wild

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  • andybarton changed the title to New Leica [M6] Film Camera in October? [MERGED]
  • LUF Admin changed the title to New Leica M6 Film Camera

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