John Robinson Posted August 30, 2022 Share #121 Posted August 30, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) This topic is drifting a long way from the original question about "best" focal length. Now we have an assertion that cropping an image at post-production stage is somehow "impure" with a kind of macho assertion about "getting it right in the camera". As an apprentice in the early 1970s I was taught about the benefits of shooting 6x6 because I could get a "good 10x8" in either portrait or landscape mode by my choice of how I set the easel under the enlarger (35mm could be treated the same but the quality was not as good and the camera had to be held the right way for the proposed destination). Absolutely the image had to be "right" at the moment of taking but there was no problem with printing to the requirement of the job. The real skill was visualising the image in the square (or 35mm) viewfinder to work out how it was going to be presented. Sure, shooting images with the intention of showing them in their entirety without cropping is a good discipline, but what if you (like me), prefer the 3x4 aspect ratio and find the 2x3 of 35mm unsatisfying? I can't always drag out my Phase One 3x4 or A16 film back on whatever heavy thing it is attached to, just to be pure. So I look through the 35mm viewfinder and visualise the image as 3x4. Does this make me "impure"? Hmm ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 30, 2022 Posted August 30, 2022 Hi John Robinson, Take a look here Why HCB uses a 50mm lens. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Capuccino-Muffin Posted August 30, 2022 Share #122 Posted August 30, 2022 19 minutes ago, 250swb said: Anybody telling the truth wouldn't demean themselves with extortion, you made the claim, you follow it up or shut up. Be a man, 100$ to Charity is nothing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted August 30, 2022 Share #123 Posted August 30, 2022 16 minutes ago, Capuccino-Muffin said: I will gladly prove it. But since it is clear that this place is one of a Country Club, and one where BULLYING is tolerated, and done by people with what is clearly limited knowledge, I want my victory to be worth it. I ask for one HP5 100’ Bulk roll, and a clear recognition that “4fps with a Leicavit is easy peasy”. You guys bunch up for a Bulk roll and I will post 3 videos where I show this easy feat. Or better yet, send 100$ to cancer charity, with proof. Your normal response to any disagreement, shown here and in previous threads, is to make offensive assumptions about those who disagree with you, and post insults about the rest of the forum members. You are at liberty to do so (until moderators choose otherwise), but no one will take you seriously until you start responding with reason and evidence. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted August 30, 2022 Share #124 Posted August 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Capuccino-Muffin said: Be a man, 100$ to Charity is nothing. You aren't charity, you have nothing to do with goodness. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf_ZG Posted August 30, 2022 Share #125 Posted August 30, 2022 Regarding cropping, I do have a sincere question: a RF is never 100% true, neither were most dslr’s. How could one get the perfect crop? Was it experience? Or did one forget the crop due to time between the click and developping the film? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capuccino-Muffin Posted August 30, 2022 Share #126 Posted August 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, 250swb said: You aren't charity, you have nothing to do with goodness. Huh? 90$ to charity, my last offer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf_ZG Posted August 30, 2022 Share #127 Posted August 30, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) To get back to the topic: to me 50mm really works and I love it, but then, when i see great reportage done on 35mm, I want to shoot wider as well, but then, it doesn’t work that well for me. Most of my life I uses a 45mm, probably that would be the perfect lens for me. Back to the g1… Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erato Posted August 30, 2022 Share #128 Posted August 30, 2022 Why HCB uses a 50mm lens? Well, this could be the answer... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/335969-why-hcb-uses-a-50mm-lens/?do=findComment&comment=4500000'>More sharing options...
pippy Posted August 30, 2022 Share #129 Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, John Robinson said: This topic is drifting a long way from the original question about "best" focal length... I think you might have misinterpreted or are 'mis-remembering' the original post. There was no question whatsoever posited about which is the "best" focal length in the OP. The comments reproduced therein merely shone some light as to why the 50mm lens was the focal length preferred by HCB by quoting his own thoughts for having such a preference. Nothing more than that. Any and all questions / opinions put forth subsequently about which is 'The Best Focal Length' could therefore be considered as being off-topic. Discussion is usually entertaining but there's not much anyone here can add to what was 'said' by HCB himself in in the OP. But I agree that many of the claims regarding use of the the Leicavit - comedic value notwithstanding - have strayed even beyond what might have been expected from such a thread. Philip. Edited August 30, 2022 by pippy 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 30, 2022 Share #130 Posted August 30, 2022 1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said: Yep, I think the first sentence makes that point abundantly clear. He had a relaxed relationship with the truth. That doesn’t change the quality of his images, just the myths he built around them. What first sentence are you referring to? You mean in the video? Just to understand what you mean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted August 30, 2022 Share #131 Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, IkarusJohn said: I have always thought that this was yet another occasion where there was a significant gap between what Henri said, and the reality of what happened....I do agree that luck plays a large part in photography. But I believe the image behind Gare St Lazare was staged.... For what it is worth, John, I have heard a bit of 'second party' background information regarding the image in question and have commented on it previously in another thread but, under the circumstances, it's clearly a fairly relevant point to be considered here so I will cut'n'paste my earlier response; "Cartier-Bresson's "Behind the Gare St-Lazare"......wasn't staged. Before he took the photograph he had seen someone else jumping over the puddle and waited for the next person to come along and do much the same thing (see below). Whether or not he took more than one frame recording several passers-by repeating the action is - for me - completely unimportant. HCB saw the potential of capturing a photograph in that situation and, ultimately, was successful...." " * This was related by HCB during a one-to-one interview in the mid-1970's with Art Historian Ted Gage who, in turn, used his interview as a basis for a lecture to us, his class, on this very subject (Street-Shooting and Staged Shots) back in around '84/'85..." Philip. Edited August 30, 2022 by pippy 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted August 31, 2022 Share #132 Posted August 31, 2022 5 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said: Stunning shots, Philip. I'll give you £500 each in Monopoly money for a matted and framed set, complete with NFTs. It's a generous offer, Paul, but I don't think I could let the set go unless Park Lane, Mayfair and The Old Kent Road were a part of the deal. Philip. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterGA Posted August 31, 2022 Share #133 Posted August 31, 2022 10 hours ago, Capuccino-Muffin said: Oh the sport of contrarianism in this forum is something else! If you’re into photography, after a while please try to get it right in-camera without cropping. Make it a deal with yourself. Do it for you. See it as a challenge. Bring your work to the next level. Work on it. Me? 100% of my work is incropped and I can tell you with certainty that absolutely 99% of it would not improve after a post-crop. My photos are built right from the shooting stage. The type of photography you are referring to has no relevance to candid shooting. Wy not make it clear you are talking about staged shots - or still life or studio or architectural or food or macro or whatever - then maybe you might have a point - maybe. The type of photography that the topic is about is about candid/reportage on the fly documentary photography - to use a generic term - 'Street Shooting'. Street shooters can frame their shot and typically do waiting in a spot where the composition works and the light woks and waiting for some passerby to walk into a pre-set shot - but again and even then it isn't candid work - where the 'trick' it to make a moment. As for choice of focal length as has been stated repeatedly- it all depends. As for HCB 'preference' for 50mm - so what even if it is true - so what? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted August 31, 2022 Share #134 Posted August 31, 2022 4 hours ago, lct said: What first sentence are you referring to? You mean in the video? Just to understand what you mean. This one: Quote I have always thought that this was yet another occasion where there was a significant gap between what Henri said, and the reality of what happened. You asked if I was saying HCB was a liar. Perhaps I was being too obtuse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capuccino-Muffin Posted August 31, 2022 Share #135 Posted August 31, 2022 1 hour ago, PeterGA said: The type of photography you are referring to has no relevance to candid shooting. Wy not make it clear you are talking about staged shots - or still life or studio or architectural or food or macro or whatever - then maybe you might have a point - maybe. The type of photography that the topic is about is about candid/reportage on the fly documentary photography - to use a generic term - 'Street Shooting'. Street shooters can frame their shot and typically do waiting in a spot where the composition works and the light woks and waiting for some passerby to walk into a pre-set shot - but again and even then it isn't candid work - where the 'trick' it to make a moment. As for choice of focal length as has been stated repeatedly- it all depends. As for HCB 'preference' for 50mm - so what even if it is true - so what? Since you do not know me, how can you assert such things? I was indeed talking about street photography, strictly. So there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted August 31, 2022 Share #136 Posted August 31, 2022 As we're talking about Henri Cartier-Bresson, I understand his methodology was to move quietly and reasonably quickly through a scene, almost cat-like, taking pictures as unobserved as he could. I don't remember who commented on this, but I seem to recall it was in India. Whatever else he was, his "decisive moment" approach to photography was effective. I can't imagine Cartier-Bresson using a motor-drive, or a Leicavit, to achieve 4fps or anything like that, to achieve "decisive moment". Actually, I can't see the point of taking any image at 4fps. I'm looking forward to seeing the proof of this approach. My approach is, and has always been, to observe a scene and watch it unfold, looking for the moment at which an image might be worth capturing. That assumes I have the right lens (usually either a 28 or 50). I then consider where to best capture the scene, shutter speed and aperture, and at least try to get the image in focus. Framing is critical, as the subject needs some level of separation, without the background getting in the way. With all that going on, it's rare for me to take more than one shot - I might focus bracket or bracket exposure, but that would be rare. I'm more likely to take further images as the scene unfolds. I've always found that you get the shot if you anticipate what's going to happen and know when the shutter fires. Machine gunning never works well. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harmen Posted August 31, 2022 Share #137 Posted August 31, 2022 Someone said 50 is the new 35. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
evikne Posted August 31, 2022 Share #138 Posted August 31, 2022 23 minutes ago, harmen said: Someone said 50 is the new 35. I would rather say that 35 is the new 50. 😉 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lelmer Posted August 31, 2022 Share #139 Posted August 31, 2022 12 hours ago, pippy said: Utter nonsense. But what do Leica know? Amateurs. Everyone knows that any Professional Photographer worth his salt can easily manage 4fps with a Leicavit; Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Philip. Looks like you don't have young super agile hands anymore 😂 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 31, 2022 Share #140 Posted August 31, 2022 7 hours ago, IkarusJohn said: This one: « I have always thought that this was yet another occasion where there was a significant gap between what Henri said, and the reality of what happened » You asked if I was saying HCB was a liar. Perhaps I was being too obtuse. It's just that we don't understand each other i guess. I expected some support in the form of a quotation from HCB for instance or a testimony of any sort but you're quoting a sentence of yours or someone else i don't know the name about a gap i have never heard of between what HCB said and the reality. I respect you infinitely but i am not interested in unsupported statements of any sort so i prefer forgetting this discussion if you don't mind. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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