Do I Need an SL2-S?

[jonnyboy]

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I work with media as well and sometime I have been wondering the same...but the reality is, getting an SL2-S for video and photos for real life work it could be more of a whim.
The beauty of Leica is the colors, yeah and also the lightweight system.
- SL2-S great colors, for pictures and probably even for video. BUT remember, to get the full potential of video you will need an external recorder to get 10bit (unless they did some magic recently?!). The fact the camera records only 8bit internally is a major step back so the 'nice colors' for video it's a bit up in the air for me.

-compact body, using manual focus for professional work it's tricky: doing what I do, I would miss way too many shots using manual focus (both for pics and video). So if you want to get an auto-focus lens (eg. 24-90mm) the 'portability' goes out the way. Not to mention the F4 at 90mm 😑 (but that's just an example).

If you really want to shoot videos there is not much that can go against the Sony a7sIII now: high resolution, 10 bit internal, 4K 100p etc etc.
Eventually I may get an SL2-S as well, I've been looking the used market for a while and as much as I'm trying to justify as I great tool for my work I know it's going to be a great addition to my kit (but probably not my go-to when I'm on a job and ish needs to be delivered!)

[Laharrier]

4 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

I work with media as well and sometime I have been wondering the same...but the reality is, getting an SL2-S for video and photos for real life work it could be more of a whim.
The beauty of Leica is the colors, yeah and also the lightweight system.
- SL2-S great colors, for pictures and probably even for video. BUT remember, to get the full potential of video you will need an external recorder to get 10bit (unless they did some magic recently?!). The fact the camera records only 8bit internally is a major step back so the 'nice colors' for video it's a bit up in the air for me.

-compact body, using manual focus for professional work it's tricky: doing what I do, I would miss way too many shots using manual focus (both for pics and video). So if you want to get an auto-focus lens (eg. 24-90mm) the 'portability' goes out the way. Not to mention the F4 at 90mm 😑 (but that's just an example).

If you really want to shoot videos there is not much that can go against the Sony a7sIII now: high resolution, 10 bit internal, 4K 100p etc etc.
Eventually I may get an SL2-S as well, I've been looking the used market for a while and as much as I'm trying to justify as I great tool for my work I know it's going to be a great addition to my kit (but probably not my go-to when I'm on a job and ish needs to be delivered!)

The SL2-S supports onboard 10 bit 4k. It’s the original SL that does only 8 bit. 

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[Guest]

On 8/24/2022 at 12:18 AM, hansvons said:

I also work in media but entered photography (stills) from the cinematography side; thus, looking through a ground glass feels natural to me. That's why I don't own an M nor have any range finder experience. I'm a Leica-phile because of their lenses, the colours their sensors render, and the build quality. 

It depends much on what your commercial work is. I don't do fast sports action, nor am I a professional birder. If that's on your plate and super quick and hyper-accurate focus on a bird's eye is what you want, don't look any further in Leica land. Their continuous AF sucks. But if portraits, events, packs, cityscapes and landscapes, anything storytelling is your game, the SL2-S is a wonderful camera. 

To my eyes, the SL2-S renders colour better than any other mirrorless camera. That counts even more so for its excellent video mode, which I regularly use and for that, I own a set of R primes. So what does better mean? It's the skin tones which don't look particularly healthy (Canon) but render the unique complexion of us humans distinctively. It's the sky blue that isn't ultramarine but a tad colder (like Arri Alexa). It's the foliage that renders cooler without that yellowish tint I often see elsewhere. 

In Leica's lineup, the SL2-S has the largest pixels, which allow for saturated shadows even at high ISO. So, no greyish shadows, no desperate saturation pushing and denoising when a shot is underexposed. You will find yourself in a much safer zone when in a pinch compared to anything else I've shot with.

The AF works nicely in standard mode. Eyes are recognised, and the focus works astonishing well in low-light conditions. I own the 24-90 zoom. It's a heavy beast but, hands down, the best standard zoom on the market. AFs works as expected; the keeper rate is way above 90%. But as said above, continuous AF is the SL2-S' Archilles heel. If you rely on that, stay with the big brands.

The EVF itself can be seen as a huge selling proposition. It's the best EVF in the industry. Period. Focusing manually gets as easy as possible when using focus peaking (the exact right amount-I use white) and magnification. You'll be in AF territory with little training regarding speed and keepers.

Lastly, the user experience is second to none compared to any other hybrid camera. That alone is a massive plus because it motivates you to experiment and shoot for your delight without assignments, using the same gear as you would for your professional work. In a way, the SL2-S is your personal trainer.

I wouldn't say that the SL2-S will send your M into retirement. But it can happen, so beware.

+1 to everything you just said. The SL2-S is a dream camera, irrespective of money (I was offered a new SL2 for less than the SL2-S and went with the -S).

I spent a long session today with my ZEISS Otus 55mm f/1.4 ZF.2 Lens and Novoflex Nikon F-L-Mount adapter on the SL2-S. I have *never* enjoyed the Otus more, or gotten better images from it, ever. This includes DSLR 800e/810/850 as well as recent mirrorless Nikon bodies like Z6/7.

The SL2-S with its combination of 'deep pixels', world's best EVF, and now the v4 firmware adjustments to precisely enable IBIS for non-standard lenses is such a gratifying camera. Leica achieved something truly special here.

Pure bliss, especially with manual lenses, including M-Noctiluxes.

[jonnyboy]

5 hours ago, Laharrier said:

The SL2-S supports onboard 10 bit 4k. It’s the original SL that does only 8 bit. 

Oh I thought it was the other way around. 10bit internal is a must these days. Does it still crops a bit when you shoot 4K 50 fps or 100?

[Laharrier]

8 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

Oh I thought it was the other way around. 10bit internal is a must these days. Does it still crops a bit when you shoot 4K 50 fps or 100?

All the specs of the camera are available online. The recent firmware updates have expanded it's capabilities since its original release.

As someone who loves the way Leica designs products and a consummate M shooter, there was very in the way of technology that swayed me away from the SL system. For the type of work I do the camera works absolutely perfectly - the menus are less cluttered and more direct than anything else on the market, and the user experience is pure Leica. This is a camera that I intend to own for a long time, and at their current prices, they really aren't much more expensive than Sonys/etc of equivalent performance. The Sony cameras are surely outstanding tools, but they just dont possess the feeling of permanence that the Leica does. Also as stated above, the color rendering of the Leica bodies paired with Leica lenses just blows the competition out of the water. Is the Sony autofocus slightly better? Yes. Does the Sony have slightly better resolution? Sure, but it also has higher noise levels. The SL2 and SL2-S are refined in a way that I didn't fully grasp until I started using one. 

[hansvons]

1 hour ago, Laharrier said:

The SL2 and SL2-S are refined in a way that I didn't fully grasp until I started using one. 

This.

[jonnyboy]

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Yeah the price of the SL2-S now is definitely entering the realm of commercial cameras. I have in mind to pop over the store in London and see if I can borrow the camera overnight - I may have a concert to shoot next week so I'd love to give it a go...hopefully they will be able to?

It's something I definitely want to try - and possibly not inside a Leica shop....as I said, I have been thinking to have it as a 2nd body to my A7s III.

 

 

[BigBabyEarl]

Verrrrrry very tempting. Got a Z9 because it was sitting at my local and no one can seem to get them. I only have an M11 for digital. I really like the speed and honestly the quality (for a $800 Z 35 1.8) of the lens. The colors are beautiful. But Leica and their color science, beautiful SL primes with an affordable used package in the SL2-S is really having me rethink the Z9. For my needs, it might be all I need. Need to get into a store and really try and test the AF of the SL2-S. 

[Laharrier]

6 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

Yeah the price of the SL2-S now is definitely entering the realm of commercial cameras. I have in mind to pop over the store in London and see if I can borrow the camera overnight - I may have a concert to shoot next week so I'd love to give it a go...hopefully they will be able to?

It's something I definitely want to try - and possibly not inside a Leica shop....as I said, I have been thinking to have it as a 2nd body to my A7s III.

 

 

Definitely give it a try. My production partner is a Sony guy. A7III and a couple A6400’s in the cabinet. The SL2S has no problem hanging with those cameras on video, and I’d take the SL2S over any of the sonys for photos. Been using with my M glass and it’s a magical combo as I’m sure you’ve heard people say. I bought my kit “open box” used (it was brand new) for $5400. Body and the Leica 24-70 2.8, 2 years of warranty bla bla. I could’ve spent that much on a song rig with the G master 24-70, but at that point - why? I think this camera is really Leica making a choice to compete with the other commercial cameras on the market. Performance is as good or better and the price is close enough. 

[Laharrier]

1 hour ago, BigBabyEarl said:

Verrrrrry very tempting. Got a Z9 because it was sitting at my local and no one can seem to get them. I only have an M11 for digital. I really like the speed and honestly the quality (for a $800 Z 35 1.8) of the lens. The colors are beautiful. But Leica and their color science, beautiful SL primes with an affordable used package in the SL2-S is really having me rethink the Z9. For my needs, it might be all I need. Need to get into a store and really try and test the AF of the SL2-S. 

Indeed. I considered all those cameras also. I would wager to say the autofocus on the Nikon is technically “better” but probably not in a way I would ever notice. The Leicas biggest downside is it’s size and weight. With the “smaller” zoom 24-70 on it’s a real hefty thing. 

[jonnyboy]

7 hours ago, Laharrier said:

Definitely give it a try. My production partner is a Sony guy. A7III and a couple A6400’s in the cabinet. The SL2S has no problem hanging with those cameras on video, and I’d take the SL2S over any of the sonys for photos. Been using with my M glass and it’s a magical combo as I’m sure you’ve heard people say. I bought my kit “open box” used (it was brand new) for $5400. Body and the Leica 24-70 2.8, 2 years of warranty bla bla. I could’ve spent that much on a song rig with the G master 24-70, but at that point - why? I think this camera is really Leica making a choice to compete with the other commercial cameras on the market. Performance is as good or better and the price is close enough. 

Great deal, especially with the 24-70 and warranty.
If I get one, I will definitely be using it with M lenses. How do you find the manual focusing? I shoot a lot of concert photography and I was wondering if you can performance quite fast with it? I bring my M as well but it's a bit of hit & miss with fast moving subjects...

[jonnyboy]

Quick Q. how do you expose for Leica log videos? do you still need to expose +1 or +2?

[Laharrier]

19 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

Great deal, especially with the 24-70 and warranty.
If I get one, I will definitely be using it with M lenses. How do you find the manual focusing? I shoot a lot of concert photography and I was wondering if you can performance quite fast with it? I bring my M as well but it's a bit of hit & miss with fast moving subjects...

The focusing is absolutely astonishing. I’m a lifelong rangefinder shooter, and I’ve never liked SLR’s with a few exceptions. With the automatic zoom feature on the SL2S critical focus can be achieved in milliseconds with manual lenses with great accuracy. As mentioned above I shot around with my old type 1 Summilux which is a nightmare at 1.4, much like the Noctilux, and focus was dead on every time. I think the SL system with M lenses is the best combo I’ve experienced lately with cameras and totally mitigates my desire to pick up an M11. The rendering is magical as only Leica can do. 
 

as for exposing in LOG, I haven’t spent much time with it yet for video but I have exposed as normal since log provides so much exposure latitude in post. The only reason I could see needing to overexpose a stop would be if you’re in a particularly dark environment and need a better look at your monitor or LCD. For tripod work it’s a nonissue though. 

[hansvons]

19 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

how do you expose for Leica log videos? do you still need to expose +1 or +2?

The SL2-S allows for viewing LUTs in L-Log mode. I use the Natural LUT, which gives you pictures with the right contrast to get an idea of what you can expect later in post. Switch on the waveform monitor, shrink it and put it in a corner. Check highlights with the waveform and all will be fine.

[Geoff C. Bassett]

19 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

Quick Q. how do you expose for Leica log videos? do you still need to expose +1 or +2?

No, unlike Sony the Leica's have a little more room to breath in the shadows in their log profile. 

Love my SL2 and SL2s for video. Stunning skin tones and color. The SL2 has full frame 4K 60p in 10-bit 4:2:2. Sl2s is cropped in 60p, but the 24p is insanely clean at high ISO, easily matches the A7sIII

[BigBabyEarl]

I was in a Leica store yesterday and I put the SL2s with a vertical grip through its paces. Ergonomics were not amazing after using the Z9 for a few weeks. To be fair it’s very hard to make a vertical grip feel as good as an integrated one. I imagine you can program the buttons to do whatever you want. The focus speed was acceptable. Not nearly as fast or accurate of course, but definitely usable. Having a tilt screen is very very helpful and missed on the SL. It’s not really comparable (Z9, A1, SL2), more like different vibes and having the benefit of the amazing glass. I went over and grabbed the M11 which I have and asked for the 75 Noct. I left the store thinking that the Leica M system is absolutely forever in my heart. It’s perfection. The SL system I have full faith that the SL3 will be unreal- but I’m just not sure for mirrorless the current line is on the same level beside having amazing lenses. It’s a compromise of a camera system I think. Great lenses, beautiful aesthetics, behind the bar simply because it’s a small company and want 4-5 years of use from each body. Not trolling, just my honest assessment after playing with the Z and handling the Sony A1. So I’m going to enjoy my M lenses on my M and patiently wait and see what Leica does next with the SL, I think… 😂

Edited September 8, 2022 by BigBabyEarl

[Laharrier]

7 hours ago, BigBabyEarl said:

I was in a Leica store yesterday and I put the SL2s with a vertical grip through its paces. Ergonomics were not amazing after using the Z9 for a few weeks. To be fair it’s very hard to make a vertical grip feel as good as an integrated one. I imagine you can program the buttons to do whatever you want. The focus speed was acceptable. Not nearly as fast or accurate of course, but definitely usable. Having a tilt screen is very very helpful and missed on the SL. It’s not really comparable (Z9, A1, SL2), more like different vibes and having the benefit of the amazing glass. I went over and grabbed the M11 which I have and asked for the 75 Noct. I left the store thinking that the Leica M system is absolutely forever in my heart. It’s perfection. The SL system I have full faith that the SL3 will be unreal- but I’m just not sure for mirrorless the current line is on the same level beside having amazing lenses. It’s a compromise of a camera system I think. Great lenses, beautiful aesthetics, behind the bar simply because it’s a small company and want 4-5 years of use from each body. Not trolling, just my honest assessment after playing with the Z and handling the Sony A1. So I’m going to enjoy my M lenses on my M and patiently wait and see what Leica does next with the SL, I think… 😂

That is a totally fair and accurate assessment! You nailed it. Only thing I’ll add is that using m lenses on the SL is the magic combo. That’s where it really excels 

[jonnyboy]

I'm going to the Store tomorrow morning, they have a second hand SL2-S which I'm keen to try. Nicely priced too....quite exciting.

In case I pull the trigger, I may have to get a M-to-L adapter, I'm not sure I need a Leica one as the only Leica glass I have is a Summicron 50mm V4 (not coded) so maybe I can get a third party one.

[hansvons]

5 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

I'm not sure I need a Leica one as the only Leica glass I have is a Summicron 50mm V4 (not coded) so maybe I can get a third party one.

If the adapter can be dumb, I'd choose a third-party adapter. I own a TT-Artisan adapter. I don't own their lenses, but the adapter was cheap and sits tight doing its job well. 

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[Photoworks]

20 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

I'm going to the Store tomorrow morning, they have a second hand SL2-S which I'm keen to try. Nicely priced too....quite exciting.

In case I pull the trigger, I may have to get a M-to-L adapter, I'm not sure I need a Leica one as the only Leica glass I have is a Summicron 50mm V4 (not coded) so maybe I can get a third party one.

If you use the Leica adapter you can still apply lens corrections in camera, what can be useful  sometime in video and photos.

The 3rd party adapters will never apply any lens correction. Vignetting , Flag color cast and so on may be not a big deal on the 50mm you have, but I can make a big difference with other lenses.

The 21MM 3.4 can gets very good color and vignetting correction with the Leica adapter that are otherwise hard to replicate in post.