Summaron f5.6 - 28mm at 60MP on a M11

[Petrichor]

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I have trawled the forums and have not located any information that might help. Please excuse me if I have overlooked something already posted.

I am very keen to get the Summaron f5.6 - 28mm at 60MP  for my M11. I clearly understand that other 28mm’ s are more contrast, sharper and more modern. However, for me, the thought of what some describe as a more ‘filmic’ look appeals.

I’m not concerned too much with the 5.6 limitations as I’ve read a bit that with good high ISO  noise should not be an issue. Am I wrong on this ?

Would the lens still provide a quality photo @60mp. I can only presume Leica factored their future plans when they reissued the lens and so the M10R and maybe the M11 ways already in their plans and this lens is not intended for only 24PM digital and film 

[Ouroboros]

I don't understand your concerns.  Take a look through this thread: 

 

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[hdmesa]

25 minutes ago, Petrichor said:

I have trawled the forums and have not located any information that might help. Please excuse me if I have overlooked something already posted.

I am very keen to get the Summaron f5.6 - 28mm at 60MP  for my M11. I clearly understand that other 28mm’ s are more contrast, sharper and more modern. However, for me, the thought of what some describe as a more ‘filmic’ look appeals.

I’m not concerned too much with the 5.6 limitations as I’ve read a bit that with good high ISO  noise should not be an issue. Am I wrong on this ?

Would the lens still provide a quality photo @60mp. I can only presume Leica factored their future plans when they reissued the lens and so the M10R and maybe the M11 ways already in their plans and this lens is not intended for only 24PM digital and film 

One of my favorite lenses. The 28 Summaron reissue is centrally sharp with modern coatings, so contrast is higher than I expected and colors are well-saturated. It's only "filmic" qualities are a nice vignette at f/5.6 and some softness in the corners. It has unique flare character, but the flare is a bit different from the original. It makes very nice images with any M, including the M11:

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Edited August 22, 2022 by hdmesa

[Petrichor]

Yes, I have seen that Summaron 28 image thread on an iPad. It informs me that many very good photos are taken with that lens. Hence my interest. However, the iPad is not the best viewing platform for acuity.

My inquiry is with the 60MP sensor, is the lens design up to the task. I have read that SOME older lens (designs) don’t perform as well on high res sensors as modern lenses.

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, Petrichor said:

My inquiry is with the 60MP sensor, is the lens design up to the task. I have read that SOME older lens (designs) don’t perform as well on high res sensors as modern lenses.

Roger explained it well (and, no, the Summaron is not a crappy lens… far from it).

Jeff

[rramesh]

I see a lot of posts on this form discussing the suitability of older lenses on modern cameras and vice versa and how lenses must be designed for the camera etc.

Some here will swear that an APO on an M11 is the best. Others will say that a Leica M3 with a Summaron is best for that old-world look.

Frankly, both cameras and lenses are nothing more than tools. Any lens is designed to perform the way it was engineered. Likewise cameras.

Most digital M cameras will work with most LTM lenses (with a mount adapter) and M lenses (without a mount adapter). 

As a photographer, decide what you want to capture, and pick the tools of choice.

There is no ideal setup here.

Edited August 22, 2022 by rramesh

[Ouroboros]

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58 minutes ago, Petrichor said:

Yes, I have seen that Summaron 28 image thread on an iPad. It informs me that many very good photos are taken with that lens. Hence my interest. However, the iPad is not the best viewing platform for acuity.

My inquiry is with the 60MP sensor, is the lens design up to the task. I have read that SOME older lens (designs) don’t perform as well on high res sensors as modern lenses.

Don't buy a 28mm summaron-m in the hope it will produce images that look like they were made with an apo asph lens, buy it for it's recognisable signature; ie obvious vignette and soft corners, it's tiny size and it's 'old school' handling.   I use it on an M10-R quite happily with no concerns about the lens being embarrassed by the 40mp sensor at all,  the increased resolution of the M11 sensor won't change it's character either. 

I wouldn't have it as my only 28mm which is why I also have a 28mm summicron asph but the 28mm summaron-m is a really nice lens to use when you want what it offers in imaging and handling on both digital and film (especially with Portra 400 in good light).  

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Ouroboros

[Petrichor]

Just read Cicala’s explanation. I presume Jeff S has travelled many and maybe this road long before me. I can only presume Cicala is knowledgeable.

I never thought the Summaron was crappy - otherwise I would not have been bothered chasing down the information I could but I now know what question not to ask again.

Makes much of what I have read on Forums and by reviewers otiose. Indeed makes me much more accepting of some very few commentators - ignore forums and reviews and click bait.

It’s hard to know where the best information sits.

[hdmesa]

2 hours ago, Petrichor said:

Yes, I have seen that Summaron 28 image thread on an iPad. It informs me that many very good photos are taken with that lens. Hence my interest. However, the iPad is not the best viewing platform for acuity.

My inquiry is with the 60MP sensor, is the lens design up to the task. I have read that SOME older lens (designs) don’t perform as well on high res sensors as modern lenses.

Not sure how much more clear and descriptive of the IQ I could have been. Rent one.

[maxpower]

I have both the 28mm Summaron reissue and the newest (non-APO) 28mm Summicron and I was also not sure if I would be happy with the IQ from the Summaron, but I have to say that since I got it 2 months ago I haven't used my 28mm Summicron since.

I don't know if you have the option but my local dealer always lets me play with lenses before buying, even letting me walk around the store outside to take some pictures. Try before you buy! Or as @hdmesa recommends rent one first. 

[jakontil]

I have the 28 summaron, been using it on M film, M10, M10R and M11, i never feel like its been outresolved by any of the sensors, and if you like it’s characteristic mentioned above, i dont think it is going to be a problem with m11, definitely not in my case

[smkoush]

Same here, I have the 28mm Summicron and more recently the new Summaron. I haven't used the Summicron since the Summaron arrived (note that I use a 35mm 1.4 for low light, otherwise I'm sure the Summicron will be used when 5.6 is not enough).

The Summaron has a very distinct rendering that I like a lot. Sure it can flare sometimes. It is very rare for me (and the photos I take) to have to throw away a photo because of flare, on the contrary it can add to the image!

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[Jeff S]

9 hours ago, Petrichor said:

Just read Cicala’s explanation. I presume Jeff S has travelled many and maybe this road long before me. I can only presume Cicala is knowledgeable.

I never thought the Summaron was crappy - otherwise I would not have been bothered chasing down the information I could but I now know what question not to ask again.

Makes much of what I have read on Forums and by reviewers otiose. Indeed makes me much more accepting of some very few commentators - ignore forums and reviews and click bait.

It’s hard to know where the best information sits.

Yikes, I think you took this in a way never intended.  Roger Cicala founded Lensrentals, which rents, tests and repairs lenses daily, and he is one of the most knowledgeable people I know regarding practical lens advice, testing and assessment.  Others like Mike Johnston from TOP share this high opinion of Roger and his writings.
 

In this case, Roger merely dispels the notion that high MP cameras out-resolve lenses.  Rather, except for poor (he uses the term crappy) lenses, a higher MP camera will enhance the image and lens character.  This has indeed been my experience using older lenses on my increasingly higher resolution M digital bodies, from M8.2 to now the M10-R and M10 Monochrom.  
 

I wrote that the Summaron was not ‘crappy’ so that it was clear that it of course didn’t fit in the category that Roger considers an exception to the rule.  In fact, I don’t know of any crappy Leica lenses.  
 

Bottom line, the Summaron will work fine on the M11, potentially better than on lower resolution bodies, of course depending on user requirements, rendering goals and skills.  There is no technical reason for thinking otherwise.
 

Jeff

Edited August 22, 2022 by Jeff S

[Petrichor]

Went to the nearest Leica shop (in Sydney), tried the lens today and was astounded at what it could do including in artificial and even relatively low light. Of course a wider band of apertures is more practical in some circumstances but what this lens puts out suits my desires perfectly.

So I bought this lens this evening. I think it will be a special joy.

Thanks for the frank and fearless advice, experiences and opinions.

[pedaes]

5 minutes ago, Petrichor said:

So I bought this lens this evening.

Congratulations and enjoy! Try shooting the same scene at f5.6 and f8 to see the difference in vignette.

It is a great lens.

[logan2z]

4 hours ago, pedaes said:

Congratulations and enjoy! Try shooting the same scene at f5.6 and f8 to see the difference in vignette.

It is a great lens.

+1 Congratulations.  It's a lens I'm interested in as well.  I have a 28mm Elmarit ASPH that I really like, but the Summaron would be an interesting complement to it.  I just wish that the black version hadn't been a limited edition.  Seems odd that that Leica would do that when, presumably, black lenses are the more popular variant.

[JCR33]

Not M11 but it is great with M10P or SL2 with 47MP

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[pippy]

On 8/22/2022 at 4:41 AM, Petrichor said:

Would the lens still provide a quality photo @60mp?

Yes.

P.

[jakontil]

4 hours ago, JCR33 said:

Not M11 but it is great with M10P or SL2 with 47MP

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Oh my, the most sought after version for a summaron lover! Very beautifully crafted lens even for the common reissue version

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Look here: Leica M

[hdmesa]

On 8/23/2022 at 6:28 AM, Petrichor said:

Went to the nearest Leica shop (in Sydney), tried the lens today and was astounded at what it could do including in artificial and even relatively low light. Of course a wider band of apertures is more practical in some circumstances but what this lens puts out suits my desires perfectly.

So I bought this lens this evening. I think it will be a special joy.

Thanks for the frank and fearless advice, experiences and opinions.

Congrats! It's a lens that just gets out of the way for me and lets me concentrate on image making.