Why do I love the colors of certain Leicas/Cameras but not others?

[SrMi]

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4 hours ago, M Street Photographer said:

But if I import 2 RAWs, the same motif and the same exposure conditions, the same lens, from different cameras into C1 without presettings and then notice a difference in the coloring, then the two manufacturers are different. And if I then, with my personal taste, feel attracted to a camera, that's ok.
That was the case with the M9 and is now the same with the M 10R.

I experienced that too with different lenses. E.g. In my opinion, the VC Apo Lanthar series has a particularly attractive color scheme, which even differs visibly from other VC lenses.

Even with the same post-processor, two different cameras typically use two different color profiles. Sometimes, the color profile is specified in the raw file, sometimes it is provided by the post-processor. It is up to the photographer which color profile to use or whether to create a tailored profile using something like Lumariver.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, overexposed said:

most cameras you mentioned do use sensors from sony.

considering the cameras you love and which you dislike are mostly lower res sensors, except the M10R(though, is 40 alot these days?)

i have a friend who owns an Phase One IQ4, and he kinda regrets buying it, saying the images look too clean, hygenic even.

so i ask you, maybe its not really the colors?

i do own an M10R and M10M, and a contax 645, with P65+ and achromatic+ back(both ccd)

when i watch the images on the screen of the M10s, images look always better, much better, because the LCD is simply so much better than what the P series of P1 could deliver.

but when watching the images on the screen usually i prefer the Phase One images.

What i also dont understand, that you like the colors of the M10R, daylight whitebalance looks quite greenish, i think i read about this also here on the forum a few times.

But back to my point, maybe its not the colors that please you, but the overall image style of lower res images.
Think about it  the color stuff again i would say

 

Ps.

i also downgraded from a GFX100 back to a Phase one P65+, what started as a sentiment acquisition, lead to, me using the C645 and P1 nearly exclusively again.

I never was a huge fan of sony sensors, and especially their cameras, especially after the A7RII i will never get one again.

Manufacturers who use Sony sensors typically share only the underlying ("monochrome") silicon. The sensor toppings and the firmware define the colors and is typically custom-made for every manufacturer.

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[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

sensor toppings

color sprinkles? now I get where the confetti effect is coming from!

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, SrMi said:

Manufacturers who use Sony sensors typically share only the underlying ("monochrome") silicon. The sensor toppings and the firmware define the colors and is typically custom-made for every manufacturer.

Indeed. The same ‘base’ Sony sensor was simultaneously used by Pentax, Fuji and Hasselblad, with quite different implementation, and results, thereafter.

And as far as final color rendering, the print stage introduces many variables even beyond camera profiles, conversion software, and other potential user edits, including paper type, paper profiles, ink sets, display lighting/temp, and so on. Even screen viewing is not necessarily uniform from display to display, or user to user.

Far beyond ‘plug and play,’ for those who care to experiment.

Jeff

[M Street Photographer]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb SrMi:

Even with the same post-processor, two different cameras typically use two different color profiles. Sometimes, the color profile is specified in the raw file, sometimes it is provided by the post-processor. It is up to the photographer which color profile to use or whether to create a tailored profile using something like Lumariver.

That's what I was trying to say. Each sensor needs a specific firmware that "interprets". For my color perception, the colors of the M10 R are interpreted very well. This already looks different with the M10 and even more so with the M11. They also have different sensors and therefore different firmware.

[SrMi]

17 minutes ago, M Street Photographer said:

That's what I was trying to say. Each sensor needs a specific firmware that "interprets". For my color perception, the colors of the M10 R are interpreted very well. This already looks different with the M10 and even more so with the M11. They also have different sensors and therefore different firmware.

By interpreted very well, you probably mean when using the default color profile. I do not see why one should not change the default color profile if it does not fit one's vision.

[M Street Photographer]

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vor einer Stunde schrieb SrMi:

By interpreted very well, you probably mean when using the default color profile. I do not see why one should not change the default color profile if it does not fit one's vision.

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with replacing the standard profile according to your own taste.
I wanted to say that if I like the standard profile of a camera, I already have a lower workflow.
In my opinion, when using presets, it is essential, depending on the recording situation, to continue editing if the motifs and / or lighting conditions change from recording to recording. From this point of view, I have little effort if I only have to fine-tune the standard profile.
It is still up to you what you like and how you edit your photos.
I was just talking about myself, my impressions and my preference for the M10 R.

It doesn't mean that I don't use other presets as well, or even create ones myself, such as Film Noir, if I think that's right for the scene.

[SrMi]

23 minutes ago, M Street Photographer said:

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with replacing the standard profile according to your own taste.
I wanted to say that if I like the standard profile of a camera, I already have a lower workflow.
In my opinion, when using presets, it is essential, depending on the recording situation, to continue editing if the motifs and / or lighting conditions change from recording to recording. From this point of view, I have little effort if I only have to fine-tune the standard profile.
It is still up to you what you like and how you edit your photos.
I was just talking about myself, my impressions and my preference for the M10 R.

It doesn't mean that I don't use other presets as well, or even create ones myself, such as Film Noir, if I think that's right for the scene.

To clarify:
- Presets and profiles are different things. 
- Profiles that I was referring to are the initial "neutral" mapping from raw data to color (e.g., Adobe Color, Adobe Standard, Cobalt Standard, Linear Profiles) and not the ones that simulate a film or an effect (e.g., Film Noir).
- In Adobe software, you can specify which profile is the default for your camera. There is no additional effort required.
- Leica recommends using the M11 profile for low ISO and Adobe Standard for high ISO.