Shift lenses vs Leica M lenses + crop

[Bobby]

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I'd like to know if anyone has experience using Canon TS or Laowa shift lenses on M bodies. I used the Canon extensively, but I'm tempted on using a Leica M 21mm and cropping the image, but I'm not sure about the performance of proper tilt-shift (or shift only) lenses on Leica M bodies. 

[marcelhoe]

Hi Bobby,

I use an Schneider Kreuznach Lens, PC-Super Angulon 2.8/28 mm with Minolta MD mount with an Novoflex Adapter to Leica M. I use it on my Leica M10-R. Ik works very well.

You can look to the video of Dominic Verhulst for Leica.

https://leica-camera.com/de-DE/stories/dominic-verhulst-lines-structure-texture-lights-shadow

Marcel

[Guest]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Bobby:

I'd like to know if anyone has experience using Canon TS or Laowa shift lenses on M bodies. I used the Canon extensively, but I'm tempted on using a Leica M 21mm and cropping the image, but I'm not sure about the performance of proper tilt-shift (or shift only) lenses on Leica M bodies. 

Although I own an old tilt and shift lens - Canon TS 2.8-35mm - which can be attached to the M10-P with an adapter by Novoflex, for architectural photography I prefer the Super Elmar-M 3.4-21mm, especially as the M10-P got the excellent update for perspective correction visible on display or electronic viewfinder.
This is much more convenient and can also be operated by hand without a tripod.

[Photoworks]

The Tilt shift lenses work well on the SL2.

Canon modern lenses need electronic contacts to work. You can only use only older lenses that are not as modern looking, softer, and lots of vignetting.

The 21  SEM works well on the M camera. It has less distortion than most sift lenses, probably do to construction of extreme wide angle of the TS lenses.

there are few other companies that adapted medium format lenses to other mounts, the resolution of medium format lenses on 35mm bodies is less than ideal.

[derleicaman]

I have several shift lenses including the Schneider Kreuznach PC Super-Angulon 28 in R mount, and one Nikon Tilt-Shift lens, and have used all of them on the M10-P. Of course, you need to use LV or the Viso 020. They are a bit of a PITA, and it theory will give the best results as it is an optical solution. In practice, the Perspective Control option on the M10 is quite good. It can be fooled though. Last November while on an excursion to Braunfels, I kept getting some very weird results on the taller towers of the church and castle with it. I think I was too close given the focal length I was using. I also found that PC does not work for close ups. I thought it would work on close ups of Leica lenses I was selling. PC made them look like deformed fire hydrants!

[drunkenspyder]

On 8/17/2022 at 11:49 AM, Bobby said:

I'd like to know if anyone has experience using Canon TS or Laowa shift lenses on M bodies. I used the Canon extensively, but I'm tempted on using a Leica M 21mm and cropping the image, but I'm not sure about the performance of proper tilt-shift (or shift only) lenses on Leica M bodies. 

I'm about to give a try to the Laowa 20mm shift lens in F mount with Novoflex adapter on my [hopefuly soon] inbound  M11. I have the Laowa in E mount for my Sony A7r4, and it's not bad. Not quite as good as the Canon 17, and definitely not in the league of Nikon 19mmPC. I wish that lens had an aperture ring. I wouldn't let it go. Anyway though, the Laowa is not bad. It's a decent wide angle lens in its own right, takes easy filters, and is reasonably compact. I've corresponded with Laowa asking them to consider offering the ens in M mount. Getting that same input from others couldn't hurt. I don't love the tripod mount ring that Laowa makes; I much prefer the Rogeti approach to the rotating collar they developed for the Canon TS lenses, but at least it's an option.

I rented an M11 this past week, and I made several images using Perspective Control, but I found it a bit too unpredictable for me, and I still don't like software-based perspective compensation. And I don't use Lightroom or Photoshop generally. So, it's not a great solution from my point of view, though I applaud Leica including it.

[Robert Blanko]

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My first experience with shifting was with my Nikon Z7 in connection with a shift adapter and my F-mount Tamron 15-30 which worked quite well. I also considered the Leica/Schneider Super Angulon 28 for my Leica. However, 28mm seemed to be to narrow for my purpose (mainly architecture).

Now I rather prefer taking several photos for instance with the 50 Apo and stitching the photos afterwards, with perspective control as far as needed (of course limited to static objects). Cropping from wide angle photos is not my primary choice, as one usually has to cut off about 50% of the photo.

[Urbanflaneur]

On 8/20/2022 at 1:54 AM, drunkenspyder said:

I'm about to give a try to the Laowa 20mm shift lens in F mount with Novoflex adapter on my [hopefuly soon] inbound  M11. I have the Laowa in E mount for my Sony A7r4, and it's not bad. Not quite as good as the Canon 17, and definitely not in the league of Nikon 19mmPC. I wish that lens had an aperture ring. I wouldn't let it go. Anyway though, the Laowa is not bad. It's a decent wide angle lens in its own right, takes easy filters, and is reasonably compact. I've corresponded with Laowa asking them to consider offering the ens in M mount. Getting that same input from others couldn't hurt. I don't love the tripod mount ring that Laowa makes; I much prefer the Rogeti approach to the rotating collar they developed for the Canon TS lenses, but at least it's an option.

I rented an M11 this past week, and I made several images using Perspective Control, but I found it a bit too unpredictable for me, and I still don't like software-based perspective compensation. And I don't use Lightroom or Photoshop generally. So, it's not a great solution from my point of view, though I applaud Leica including it.

Hi, just saw this! How did you find the Laowa on the M11?  

[M11 for me]

What is the difference in image quality when you use a shift lens versus using perspective control or you just use lightroom. Of course one method is optical and the other is electronic correction. Can you see any difference? 

[Mak67]

Shift lenses:

+ easy framing

+ Dof stay parallel to the subject

+Tilt option on some of them

+Image output already corrected (no Time in post prod)

- medium to bad sharpness (due to diffraction and Lens resolution)

- Bad CA and hard top correct

- bad distorsion and hard top correct

 

Keystone correction:

+ Very good sharpness

+ Very good CA control

+ Very good distorsion control

- dof not parrallel to the subject 

- framing can be tricky (but if you think about what you fo, then it is not)

- optical Lens reduction 

-raw output not corrected (more Time ost production)

 

Leica perspective control:

+ Very good sharpness

+ Very good CA control

+ Very good distorsion control

Framing is ok !

- dof not parrallel to the subject 

- optical Lens reduction 

- more image resolution loosed du to crop.

 

Using all of thoses for work, i find much better output quality from a good leica Lenses + digital correction for low to medium shift (Say under 7/8mm shift).this is due to the fantsatic Lens +Lens correction+ possibility to work at best Lens aperture.

But when you need extrem shift (+8/+15mm) then, framing become difficult, dof not being parrallel to the subject is also a big concern, and last with extrem shift loss of resolution is important (still enough for double page print) with Keystone digital correction, then for thoses cases shift lenses is easier to work.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Mak67

[louca]

On 8/17/2022 at 1:59 PM, Guest said:

Although I own an old tilt and shift lens - Canon TS 2.8-35mm - which can be attached to the M10-P with an adapter by Novoflex, for architectural photography I prefer the Super Elmar-M 3.4-21mm, especially as the M10-P got the excellent update for perspective correction visible on display or electronic viewfinder.
This is much more convenient and can also be operated by hand without a tripod.

 

On 8/17/2022 at 6:12 PM, Photoworks said:

The Tilt shift lenses work well on the SL2.

Canon modern lenses need electronic contacts to work. You can only use only older lenses that are not as modern looking, softer, and lots of vignetting.

The 21  SEM works well on the M camera. It has less distortion than most sift lenses, probably do to construction of extreme wide angle of the TS lenses.

there are few other companies that adapted medium format lenses to other mounts, the resolution of medium format lenses on 35mm bodies is less than ideal.

 

How about the Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 (Color Skopar) compared to the SEM 21mm f/3.4?

Does it have much more distortions to be used as a shift lens substitute?

 

[drunkenspyder]

Just depends on the subject matter IMHO.  But in my experience, while 21 is a great focal length for many things (I love my Voigt 21/3.5), it won’t be enough for when you want/need a shift lens, e.g., architecture. 

[Photoworks]

The benefit of shift

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