New Pana-Leica camera soon?

[oldwino]

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Just a thought…but it would be interesting if this camera turns out to be the “M” with the EVF. Panasonic would have a “rangefinder style” camera to sell, which many want (including me!), and Leica gets to make an M sized camera that isn’t a M, thus not sullying the holy M name/concept. 

[lct]

Little chance it would have an M mount IMO.

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[jaapv]

Yes, but beyond focal length and possibly aperture I see little value in preserving the optical construction for future generations. 

[lct]

2 hours ago, jaapv said:

Yes, but beyond focal length and possibly aperture I see little value in preserving the optical construction for future generations. 

We see those things differently then but whatever our personal tastes, the next Leica L should have the same kind of lens lists as the M11, CL and probably SL cameras too but i have no experience with them.

[jaapv]

56 minutes ago, lct said:

We see those things differently then but whatever our personal tastes, the next Leica L should have the same kind of lens lists as the M11, CL and probably SL cameras too but i have no experience with them.

As they say, YMMV.  

[lct]

This way you'll get the Pana, i'll get the Leica and everyone's happy... except CL users praying for a luxury crop cam that will never see the light... Just kidding dear CL users .

[oldwino]

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5 hours ago, lct said:

Little chance it would have an M mount IMO.

Of course. It would have to be the L mount for autofocus etc. But it could be M-sized, which is what I originally wrote. 

[lct]

23 minutes ago, oldwino said:

Of course. It would have to be the L mount for autofocus etc. But it could be M-sized, which is what I originally wrote. 

I would not hold my breath. It it yet difficult (Leica says impossible) to cram IBIS in the M11. I have no info about that though.

[oldwino]

48 minutes ago, lct said:

I would not hold my breath. It it yet difficult (Leica says impossible) to cram IBIS in the M11. I have no info about that though.

Ricoh did it in the GR3 series. 

[lct]

48 minutes ago, oldwino said:

Ricoh did it in the GR3 series. 

I don't want to argue but the GR3 is a crop camera. My Sony A7r2 is FF and has IBIS too. An SL3 that compact would be what i dream about since the launch of the SL but a reference to the Panasonic S5 would be perhaps more appropriate for a PanaLeica body supposed to be launched next year. Again i have no info about all that though.

[BernardC]

14 hours ago, lct said:

I would not hold my breath. It it yet difficult (Leica says impossible) to cram IBIS in the M11. I have no info about that though.

The M11 is different because Leica feels obliged to keep the external dimension of the camera faithful to historical M film cameras. This is a problem because film Ms put their  "sensor" almost at the back of the camera, leaving no room for electronics, screens, and cooling!

[lct]

47 minutes ago, BernardC said:

The M11 is different because Leica feels obliged to keep the external dimension of the camera faithful to historical M film cameras [...]

We all know this here but either you keep compact external dimensions or they are not compact anymore. It would be difficult to do more compact than the Pana S5 i suspect but i have not the least idea on what Leica is planning for the SL3 or any other camera.

[Simone_DF]

We'll probably see IBIS and EVF in a M when it will switch from a mechanical shutter to a 100% electronic shutter a la Z9

[lct]

 

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, lct said:

We all know this here but either you keep compact external dimensions or they are not compact anymore. It would be difficult to do more compact than the Pana S5 i suspect but i have not the least idea on what Leica is planning for the SL3 or any other camera.

The S5 is similar in height and width to the M, or it would be if they moved the EVF to the side.

Panasonic did this in 2006 for the DMC-L1. It was an SLR with a mirror box, so it's thicker than the M, but that could be fixed in a mirrorless design.

I'm still not convinced that Leica needs to release an L-mount camera that looks like an M. Lots of people say that they want an "EVF M", but there's a huge difference between an idle wish and spending actual money. The L1 is a good example, it looks like an M (vaguely), but not once you put a lens on it. Leica would come-up with better packaging if they didn't try to make it look like an M.

[lct]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

[...] I'm still not convinced that Leica needs to release an L-mount camera that looks like an M. Lots of people say that they want an "EVF M", but there's a huge difference between an idle wish and spending actual money. The L1 is a good example, it looks like an M (vaguely), but not once you put a lens on it. Leica would come-up with better packaging if they didn't try to make it look like an M.

Not sure why Leica would want to do that. The DMC-L1 was a 4/3 Panasonic camera and the rumored EVF-M would be a manual camera with an M mount i guess. The Pana-Leica cameras we are discussing about would be full frame L-mount cameras with autofocus, video and IBIS like the Panasonic S5 among other FF mirrorless cameras. Little to do with M cameras then, except that the Leica variant would have a sensor designed for L, M and R lenses like other SL cameras presumably but this is just vaporware for now. 

[BernardC]

That old Panasonic is just an example of a non-rangefinder camera that was made to look like an M (or just like a generic rangefinder). That's what people seems to expect an "EVF-M" to look like, although it wouldn't be based on a design from 2006. That's way too recent, it should be 1954! 🙂

I agree that it makes more sense with an L mount. They can offer a version with an M adapter, for those who think it should have an M mount. There's a historical precedent, some early M lenses were actually screw-mount lenses with an adapter semi-permanently attached.

[lct]

19 minutes ago, BernardC said:

That old Panasonic is just an example of a non-rangefinder camera that was made to look like an M (or just like a generic rangefinder). That's what people seems to expect an "EVF-M" to look like, although it wouldn't be based on a design from 2006. That's way too recent, it should be 1954! 🙂

I agree that it makes more sense with an L mount. They can offer a version with an M adapter, for those who think it should have an M mount. There's a historical precedent, some early M lenses were actually screw-mount lenses with an adapter semi-permanently attached.

Haha seems like we'll have to wait another day to find an agreement here . An EVF-M can only have an M mount to me, otherwise it could not be an M camera for lack of M mount and lack of rangefinder. Let alone that an L-mount camera would not allow auto zoom with M lenses, which is a unique feature of M cameras. In any case, this not the topic here. We will find other opportunities to agree hopefully .

[jaapv]

10 hours ago, BernardC said:

The S5 is similar in height and width to the M, or it would be if they moved the EVF to the side.

 

You would not say this if you actually had the cameras side by side.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[raadoo]

Is what we've been clamoring about not a "small and light, 35mm, EVF equipped, L Mount, optimised for M lenses, camera with IBIS that has that Leica colour science we all love" that takes inspiration from the classic M?

Personally, I could even do without AF - have been for the better part of 2 years already anyway.

I don't think anyone is adamant about this mythical beast needing to say M on the body itself. Or at least I hope not.