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New Pana-Leica camera soon?


oldwino
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Isn't the Q basically the same as the SL, at least in terms of functionality and sensor? It's also not that different from the S-007. Those 3 cameras came-out around the same time, but the S-007 was an evolution of the S-006 and S2. I'm not sure where Panasonic fits in that family tree, but I would be surprised if their contribution started with the S2.

The Digilux cameras are external products, with better warranties.

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On 8/9/2022 at 6:34 AM, MrSMW said:

My prediction is other than Leica's rangefinder line, both companies are going to collaborate and bring out two future full frame hybrid bodies, one in lower mp spec and one higher and in two sizes, one approx Panny S5 size and the other approx SL2 size.

Some small differences in the details, but otherwise the same cameras.

The Leica's 'may' have some extra sauce in the stills department in order to justify a higher price than the Pannys and the Pannys 'may' have some extra video sauce, just because it's Panny.

Otherwise, I think they are going to kill off pretty much all other forms of camera both currently produce other than perhaps collaboration with a phone company.

I suspect the new cameras are well underway in development and will be announced officially later this year.

THERE IS NO SOURCE ON THIS. It is 100% speculation on my part based on nothing but instinct, but I think that's what they are going to do because it's what I'd like to see them do!

This may very well be the case and may be the reason for the recent promotions by Leica to move SL2/SL2-s stock. Unless of course its just to make room for an upcoming SL3 but the rumor mill seems quiet on that front.

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41 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The sensor should be different as it is configured for a fixed sensor-lens unit, whereas the SL sensors must be more universal to ensure compatibility with many lenses, including M ones. 

That's a different micro-lens array in front of the sensor. The basic sensor seems to be the same as the SL, and it's used in the same way (live view, UI).

The answer is probably nuanced. The Q and SL seem to descend from the S cameras. They use the same Maestro processor and have similar software. They also incorporate Panasonic features, like DFD.

It is possible that Leica sub-contracted Panasonic as far back as the original S2, or that they cooperated in some way on their then-new digital platform (different from the M8 and Digital Module R). It's also possible that the cooperation kicked-off when Leica started working with live-view, since Panasonic had a lot of relevant experience with their Micro Four Thirds cameras. I doubt we will ever know, unless a Leica engineer spills the beans.

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On 8/8/2022 at 6:58 AM, nicci78 said:

Quite self explanatory : no more compact nor bridge. 
No more low end m4/3. Only GH6.

Future Leica SL3 - Lumix S2 or SL10/S6 will be announced in 2023. It will be jointly developed. Something like their former D-Lux/LX100 or V-Lux/FZ1000 or C-Lux/TZ200 ? Hope not. 
 

Not sure if this counts out bridge cameras or compacts, especially the long zoom variety. It will be disappointing if Panasonic axes development of all compact cameras, because I'm still getting a lot if mileage from my LX10. Mid range m43 cameras will hopefully stay on, like the GX series, and maybe a G9 successor.

As for a joint Pana-Leica camera, I suspect this will be the first publicly acknowledged Pana-Leica collaborative camera. More than a few suspect that the SL was at least partially developed by Panasonic with Leica, and even the X Vario was found to have some Panasonic code. Nevertheless, I'm intrigued by what will emerge, and what features will differentiate it from existing Panasonic and Leica lines.

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5 hours ago, Archiver said:

As for a joint Pana-Leica camera, I suspect this will be the first publicly acknowledged Pana-Leica collaborative camera

It has been publicly acknowledged in 2002 for the Digilux 1 if memory serves. Same for all later Digilux and D-Lux cameras AFAIK.

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Nobody ever tried to disguise the fact that Digilux cameras are collaborations. First with Fuji, then with Panasonic. They exist to provide Leica boutiques with extra sales turnover. Whether or not they are a good deal depends on where you live, how much the Lumix equivalent goes for, and how much you value a longer warranty.

As far as the SL is concerned, Leica told us that they used Panasonic's DFD technology when it first came out. I don't know why people think it's a secret now, when it was on press releases. There's a big jump from "using technology from an external vendor" to "outsourcing a whole camera." All evidence points to the former and not the later, especially since the SL is clearly an evolution of the S2, S-006, and S-007.

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57 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Nobody ever tried to disguise the fact that Digilux cameras are collaborations. First with Fuji, then with Panasonic. They exist to provide Leica boutiques with extra sales turnover. Whether or not they are a good deal depends on where you live, how much the Lumix equivalent goes for, and how much you value a longer warranty.

As far as the SL is concerned, Leica told us that they used Panasonic's DFD technology when it first came out. I don't know why people think it's a secret now, when it was on press releases. There's a big jump from "using technology from an external vendor" to "outsourcing a whole camera." All evidence points to the former and not the later, especially since the SL is clearly an evolution of the S2, S-006, and S-007.

I think there are two different things at play here. The SL shares some of the house design philosophy of the S cameras, but I don't think its sensor had anything to do with the sensor in the S007. As for the "Maestro" processor, I think that for anyone other than Leica's engineers it is probably hard to say what exactly that means, and how much of it is the same in different bodies. My assumption was that it was simply a convenient branding device for their software/hardware image processing, and I am sure that it has to be tweaked substantially for every camera/sensor combo. Their partner for the Maestro processor is Fujitsu, not Panasonic. I think there are certainly areas where Leica shares parts and range of bodies, but as an S and SL user, I can say with certainty that there is little in common with the sensor and performance of the S006 (with its M9 derived Kodak CCD) and the SL. They share a four button interface and some similar looking parts like the viewfinder design and top screen, but I think in general they are very different cameras with very different sensors. I would say this for the S007 and S3 as well.

The reality of all of this is that who made the components in a given camera is mostly irrelevant at this point in history. Every camera is crammed full of parts sourced around the world. As an example of this, the West has been targeting Russia with sanctions on high tech components which they need to build their armaments. If even the Russian military industry cannot build their products without chips from the rest of the world, it is a fallacy to think that a small camera company like Leica could do so. Manufacturing is extremely globalized. In this context, it is better to focus on the actual camera, rather than the sensor/parts. The SL camera line is not like Leica's other "rebrands" where they have changed only the skin of the camera and the menus. They are wholly different than the Panasonic S line. Take it from someone who uses both!

Edited by Stuart Richardson
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Price would be the only reason to separate the SL and the Lumix. In the future 2023, I think they are going to focus on a single camera. Panasonic would have more support on the videography and Leica would be responsible  for the handling and colour science. The size will not be smaller than S5 and its because the system will be unbalanced when the camera matching with the SL lenses. Possibly a SL2 with flip screen and a higher BSI ISO camera, that able to record 8k video with add on program etc.

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29 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The original Digilux was based on a Fuji cooperation. 

The Digilux 1 i was referring to has nothing to do with Fuji. A pure, so to speak, Pana-Leica camera. 

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But that is not the Digilux (1998) nor the Digilux Zoom.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, jaapv said:

But that is not the Digilux (1998) nor the Digilux Zoom.

Not sure why you refer to those cameras. I said above that the  joint Pana-Leica "has been publicly acknowledged in 2002 for the Digilux 1". Nothing to do with Fuji in 1998, right?  

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As far as I know/have read - and also consistent with experiences with SL2/SL2-S plus S1R/S5 - these bodies share the same IBIS-mechanism; a very good one, actually. It is also my understanding that the IBIS comes from - or via - Panasonic.

In a forthcoming FF collaboration between Leica and Panasonic one can foresee similar bodies, but with distinct fingerprints like special micro-lenses & thin IR-filter in front of the sensor + in-house colour technology and an über-good EVF for the Leica-body; and somewhat less special (expensive) & more general features on the Lumix-body. Time will tell...

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11 minutes ago, jaapv said:

It shows that Leica has a history of cooperation with its digital cameras (The R series obviously as well) 

I just  replied to a statement (link) according to which "As for a joint Pana-Leica camera, I suspect this will be the first publicly acknowledged Pana-Leica collaborative camera". The author did not refer to Fuji nor R series either. Only Pana-Leica.  

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