M10R Metering and ISO Question

[bourne]

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I have just purchased a M10R and have a few questions regarding exposure metering and ISO performance.  I apologize in advance if these issues are discussed in previous posts.

 

I do a fair amount of landscape photography and using matrix metering, I am finding that my raw files appear quite underexposed.  Using lightroom I can recapture all of the detail, but just curious why the raw file appears so dark.  I realize that the meter is reading the brightness of the sky etc, but compared to landscape photos taken with my Q2, the raw files are quite different.  Any guidance or suggestions would be appreciated.

 

My second question relates to what is the highest ISO that most M10R shooters feel still has an acceptable level of noise

 

Thank you....

[jaapv]

Every exposure meter has its own characteristic and must be learned by the user. 

I don't own a M10R but in general noise is a matter of user acceptance, which is individual and wildly variable. Complicated by the existence of fantastic noise-reduction tools like DXO PureRaw and Topaz DeNoise AI.

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[Siriusone59]

When I first started using my m10r I was initially surprised at the 1-2 stops underexposure when compared to the Q.  After a bit of reading I found that it was considered somewhat intentional to prevent blown highlights.  I try to look at the histogram and dial up the exposure a little but sometimes I'll forget and have to fix it in LR.  The good thing as you've found is that it is recoverable.

As to the ISO question, @jaapv has the best answer.  Myself, I've had what I considered good results at 6400 without using a dedicated noise software,  I'm sure others will have more detailed thoughts on the matter.

[LeicaR10]

Bourne,  Both Jaapv and Siriusone59 offer very good advice.  I found the M10-R does exceptionally well up to 6400 and even 12500 depending on the scene.  I also sent you a PM so not to derail your OP thread.  r/ Mark

[GFONG]

I switched from m10P to m10R. I found that the noise performance of m10R is not as good as m10P. For m10P I set the max ISO to 6400 and sometimes I used ISO 8000. For m10R, the max ISO I set is 3200. In M10R, from ISO 1600 onward the noise is very obvious. Also some photos taken at day time, the ISO is 200 & 400 but the noise is very obvious. (Please note that I view the photos on my 27” iMac with 100% view.)

For m10R exposure metering, if you are using rangefinder, you use only center-weighted regardless the exposure meter settings. The spot and matrix metering can only be used in LV mode. For under exposure, I remember the M10P has the highlights clipping problem. Therefore a lot of users, including me, set EV to -2/3 to 1 stop to avoid the highlight clipping. Maybe (I guess only) Leica fixed this problem in m10R by making it under exposure.  For Q2, it has the highlight weighted metering, therefore the camera simply based on the reading of each exposure mode without taking the highlight clipping into consideration. Therefore when you are using the matrix metering, the camera just give you the average exposure value without making any adjustment.

[jaapv]

But the problem with - ⅔ is that it does not take the subject matter in consideration. For street use at night there will often be a high-contrast situation, with specular highlights and deep shadows. Now theese psecular highlights, which may be blown with no ill effect on the pfotograph will fool the meter into underexposure, which will increase noise. Add that the Dynamic Range, which is vast at base ISO, will lose one stop at each doubling of the ISO value. So if you are at say, ISO 6400 AND underexpose, you are in a  low DR situation and you will run in to noise as soon as you lift the shadows. There you are : a camera with a DR of 7 EV values and a scene on the street with light and deep shadows and an EV range of 12. 

That leaves you with hobson’s choice: either blow the highlights or drown the dark parts in noise Normally the highlights matter less in this situation. So in that case ETTR, i.e. expose for the shadows and let the highlights fall where they may. The alternative is to shoot an exposure bracket and develop in Luminar Neo which has the best HDR tools in the market. 

[Siriusone59]

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I've found that the quick and dirty way to compensate for the underexposure is to just meter off the ground near the subject.  Then after half pressing the release, reframe to include the sky or whatever might create highlights and take the shot.  It will still be a bit underexposed with the m10r but not in excess.  Also I must add that it is metered center weighted and not matrix.  It's just a work around method but it does seem to reduce the underexposed DNGs. Your experience my vary but this works for me when I don't want to take time to check the histogram etc..

[M11 for me]

Perfect. That's how I always did with my M10. There is a steep learning courve hopefully. 

When you want to avoid blown sky then you have to do the opposite. 

[bourne]

Thank you all for your responses.  Just a follow-up question.....When I set the the "max" shutter speed to 1/f4 with my 35mm summicron the camera still selects shutter speeds below 125th etc...  Not sure why this is happening.

Thanks........

[Anakronox]

One fine point of clarity that hasn’t been explicitly stated yet: with the entire M10 series, if you’re not using Live View or the EVF only center-weighted metering is used to determine exposure.  The camera will meter off the shutter curtain only.  The other metering modes are ignored until Live View is enabled, regardless of what you set in the menus.  This is by design. 

[darylgo]

The M10-R can withstand over-exposure almost a stop over the other M10 bodies, so if your getting under exposed files you are losing exposure in the shadows, significant for landscape.   Matrix metering has always been a mystery to me, I never know for sure what it is doing, center-weighted is much more predictable and as has been mentioned exposure can be locked by varying the central subject and then recomposing.  Unless the lighting is changing, once proper exposure is determined manual settings give 100% predictable exposure and histograms.  

[Cthulhu]

On 8/6/2022 at 2:36 AM, bourne said:

matrix metering

You are using live view right? (Or EVF)

 

On 8/6/2022 at 2:36 AM, bourne said:

just curious why the raw file appears so dark.

These questions are always hard to answer because if you show me a file I may look at it and say “nope. That doesn’t look dark to me”.. so actually there may be nothing wrong with it. Or you’re using the OVF which means you’re in a center weighted meter situation.

On 8/6/2022 at 2:36 AM, bourne said:

what is the highest ISO that most M10R shooters feel still has an acceptable level of noise

The only thing that matters is what you feel comfortable with. We all shoot different things. I’ve never cared about ISO regardless of the camera used. Others may feel differently. Some people feel that their photos shouldn’t have any noise and are obsessed with taking everything at ISO100. 

up to 6400ISO I’ve never seen any banding or loss of quality. Just nice noise. And I like noise. I’d rather have noise than loss of detail. 

Usually lower megapixel cameras can take high ISO photos without having too much noise. So at 40MP you’ll see it after 1600ISO if you’re that obsessed with it. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Cthulhu