28mm lens on a Leica M2 or M4

[ejg1890]

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I primarily shoot 35mm but do shot 28mm periodically. I know the M2 and M4 do not have the 28mm frame lines. However, these 2 cameras do have the .72 viewfinder magnification the same as a Leica M10 which does have the frame lines that fill the entire view finder. Based on that I assume I could use the entire view finder if I attach a 28mm to either the M2 or M4, am I correct in that assumption? Also if that is correct, what frame lines do appear in the view finder when the 28mm is attached?  Thanks. 

[BradS]

Yes, when a 28mm is mounted on a Leica M2,  the entire view finder gives pretty accurate framing. The 28mm lens brings up the 90mm frame lines on an M2.

Edited August 5, 2022 by BradS

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[madNbad]

I use my 26 2.8 Elmarit-M ASPH on my M4 without a accessory finder. It brings up the 90 frame leaving the edge of the viewfinder unobstructed. Must wotk fine considering Leica took the same .72 finder and added 28 frame lines.

[logan2z]

I usually use the 28mm SLOOZ when shooting a 28mm lens on my M4.  It's lower magnification lets me see the framelines and some area outside of them.

[ktmrider2]

If you look at how hard it is to see the 28mm frame lines in a .72 viewfinder and how close they are to the edges of the frame, you can tell that the whole frame on the M2 or M4 would give you a good approximation of the 28 FOV.  Leica viewfinders are not known for precise framing.  If you need precision in framing or composition, can I suggest an Nikon F or F2 which show 100% of the image recorded on the film regardless of the focal length used.  And the Nikon F is one of the best classic cameras from the same era as the M2 or M4.  I suspect they don't have the pizzaz of a Leica simply because there were many many more made and can be had much cheaper than a M2 or M4.  

I have a Nikon F with a standard prism married to a 55f3.5 Micro lens.  It was one of the sharpest 50's ever made and can still hold its own with anything made today-50 or 60 years after it was introduced.

Edited August 6, 2022 by ktmrider2

[Mute-on]

17 hours ago, ejg1890 said:

I primarily shoot 35mm but do shot 28mm periodically. I know the M2 and M4 do not have the 28mm frame lines. However, these 2 cameras do have the .72 viewfinder magnification the same as a Leica M10 which does have the frame lines that fill the entire view finder. Based on that I assume I could use the entire view finder if I attach a 28mm to either the M2 or M4, am I correct in that assumption? Also if that is correct, what frame lines do appear in the view finder when the 28mm is attached?  Thanks. 

Yes you are correct. 28mm appears with 90mm in Leicas after M4, so without 28mm framelines you get 90mm framelines. 

[colint544]

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As others say, just use the entire viewfinder frame. I use both an M2, and an M4, and I shoot with a 28mm Summicron sometimes. Works for me.

[ejg1890]

Thanks for the replies verifying my thoughts. I currently own an M2 but, 1)I’m on one coast while the M2 is on the other coast so dont have access to it; 2)I wanted a 2nd 35mm camera so one camera has BW film and color in the other.

So I did go with a Leica M4 this time. There are 2-3 changes from the M2: the quick film loading which I like; the plastic area for film advance which I have no opinion of one way or the other; and finally the rewind crank or handle which I am not real fond of (wish the M4 had the M2/3 rewind knob).  I took it out this afternoon for a quick roll for testing to ensure all is good with the camera.

Thanks again.

[logan2z]

2 hours ago, ejg1890 said:

Thanks for the replies verifying my thoughts. I currently own an M2 but, 1)I’m on one coast while the M2 is on the other coast so dont have access to it; 2)I wanted a 2nd 35mm camera so one camera has BW film and color in the other.

So I did go with a Leica M4 this time. There are 2-3 changes from the M2: the quick film loading which I like; the plastic area for film advance which I have no opinion of one way or the other; and finally the rewind crank or handle which I am not real fond of (wish the M4 had the M2/3 rewind knob).  I took it out this afternoon for a quick roll for testing to ensure all is good with the camera.

Thanks again.

Congratulations on the M4, great camera.   I have an M-A and an M4 so I've experienced both types of rewind knobs.  Honestly, they both work fine and I don't really have a preference, they're just different.

Enjoy your new camera!

[ktmrider2]

I would argue that Leica went back to the rewind knob on the MP/MA primarily for nostalgia, just like they did with the film advance.  Every other film camera from the 1960's onward used a version of the rewind found on the M4, except on most or all SLR's they were not canted.  Of course, there was no need for a canted rewind knob on an SLR as the viewfinder was not in the way.

Both styles of rewind knobs work as has been mentioned earlier and surprisingly both styles of film advance work as well.

[localonthe8s]

7 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

I would argue that Leica went back to the rewind knob on the MP/MA primarily for nostalgia, just like they did with the film advance.  Every other film camera from the 1960's onward used a version of the rewind found on the M4, except on most or all SLR's they were not canted.  Of course, there was no need for a canted rewind knob on an SLR as the viewfinder was not in the way.

Both styles of rewind knobs work as has been mentioned earlier and surprisingly both styles of film advance work as well.

It might be nostalgia but to me it's more durable and honestly just looks better. 

It might be a bit slower but if that bothers anyone then they're shooting the wrong camera to begin with. 

[Pyrogallol]

Yes, I prefer the original rewind knob, no angled linkage to go wrong. And just how many times are you in a hurry to rewind a film to change to a new film that a few seconds are important?

[ktmrider2]

Ergonomically, I think the canted rewind knob is easier to use.  And it would be interesting to know how many canted rewind knobs had to be repaired in the history of Leica film cameras since one of the arguments is that the straight rewind is stronger and does not break as easily.

Edited August 9, 2022 by ktmrider2

[madNbad]

2 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

Ergonomically, I think the canted rewind knob is easier to use.  And it would be interesting to know how many canted rewind knobs had to be repaired in the history of Leica film cameras since one of the arguments is that the straight rewind is stronger and does not break as easily.

I never liked the rewind knobs on the M6s I owned but now I have a early production M4 and both the knob and handle are much sturdier than later models. I still prefer the post, I'm never in that much of a hurry to rewind.

[Huss]

2 hours ago, ktmrider2 said:

Ergonomically, I think the canted rewind knob is easier to use.  And it would be interesting to know how many canted rewind knobs had to be repaired in the history of Leica film cameras since one of the arguments is that the straight rewind is stronger and does not break as easily.

I think the issue is if they are dropped.  Obviously don't drop your Leica!  But, I have seen Ms w/ the angled rewind knob that had to be repaired because they were dropped and landed on the crank.

The most solid rewind crank of course is on the M5.  It also has an excellent ratcheting action.

[ejg1890]

I mentioned the rewind crank because I was concerned the crank would break due to the tension on the crank while winding. I probably keep the crank folded and try to rewind as a knob.

[a.noctilux]

7 hours ago, ejg1890 said:

I mentioned the rewind crank because I was concerned the crank would break due to the tension on the crank while winding. I probably keep the crank folded and try to rewind as a knob.

It would be difficult if possible to do so.

I think that the M4 crank is solid enough to be used as it should.

I use many M4 for decades and never experienced "crank break".

So use the crank as it should be used and do have confidence in Leica material choices 😇.

...

As side note when I used 28mm on M4 without aux finder, the 0.72 VF has some hiden part at bottom right, even worse with hood,

so in serious framing, I use an aux 28mm finder.

Arnaud

Edited August 10, 2022 by a.noctilux

[Huss]

14 hours ago, ejg1890 said:

I mentioned the rewind crank because I was concerned the crank would break due to the tension on the crank while winding. I probably keep the crank folded and try to rewind as a knob.

No, that's not going to happen.  I've used these for years with zero issues.  It may only be a problem if you drop the camera onto something hard and it lands on the crank.

[1joel1]

iirc, I used to use the entire view area and when I got my film back, it covered a tiny bit more. So, worst case scenario was that I got more than I could see. I liked that.

As for the rewind lever issue, I never had any issue with either systems and as stated earlier, I am never in a hurry to rewind and reload. Can you imagine if SD cards only held 24 or 36 images?  There would be all sorts of quick change products on the market.

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