Used M10 prices plateaued?

[adan]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, jakontil said:

Just wondering, what do you mean by sensor bifurcation in M10r?

Sensors are read out via two channels to speed up the process. Typically left and right. The two channels have to be carefully tuned to each other so that the left and right sides of a smooth tone in a horizontal picture (for example a sky) match exactly.

The M10-MONOCHROM showed some early issues with such bifurcations in skies and such, especially with rather heavy post-processing.

https://diglloyd.com/prem/s/LEICA/LeicaM/M10M-SensorDefect.html?dglyPT=true

Personally, I've not heard of the full-color M10-R (same basic silicon, but introduced later) having that problem, but could be.

[gordec]

4 hours ago, jakontil said:

Just wondering, what do you mean by sensor bifurcation in M10r?

This seems to be an issue with cameras with sensors that are optically stitched together. The sensor for certain M bodies are imaged during production in two halves, left and right.

It looks like it's more of an issue with the M9, M10-M, M10-R and M11 cameras. Effects can be subtle or severe but it's questionable of Leica will even fix it. 

To test,  shoot a homogenous subject such as sky or white wall at the image center and expose. Adjust contrast/curves and look for a difference in brightness between the left half and the right half of the image. If the sensor has a bifurcation problem, you will see a vertical line at the image center. This may not show up in your typical editing preference. 
 

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[junix]

31 minutes ago, gordec said:

This seems to be an issue with cameras with sensors that are optically stitched together. The sensor for certain M bodies are imaged during production in two halves, left and right.

It looks like it's more of an issue with the M9, M10-M, M10-R and M11 cameras. Effects can be subtle or severe but it's questionable of Leica will even fix it. 

To test,  shoot a homogenous subject such as sky or white wall at the image center and expose. Adjust contrast/curves and look for a difference in brightness between the left half and the right half of the image. If the sensor has a bifurcation problem, you will see a vertical line at the image center. This may not show up in your typical editing preference. 
 

Does this sensor bifurcation issue occur only on "new cameras" or it "develops over time"?

[chris_tribble]

Adan - thanks. We will see!

Edited August 22, 2022 by chris_tribble

[jakontil]

4 hours ago, adan said:

Sensors are read out via two channels to speed up the process. Typically left and right. The two channels have to be carefully tuned to each other so that the left and right sides of a smooth tone in a horizontal picture (for example a sky) match exactly.

The M10-MONOCHROM showed some early issues with such bifurcations in skies and such, especially with rather heavy post-processing.

https://diglloyd.com/prem/s/LEICA/LeicaM/M10M-SensorDefect.html?dglyPT=true

Personally, I've not heard of the full-color M10-R (same basic silicon, but introduced later) having that problem, but could be.

Thanks for the head ups andy, seems to be too much for my brain to swallow, but from the older link, im kinda understood what might cause such phenomenon, that said, almost every camera brand might inherit such behavioue, cant go against science :))

[RexGig0]

I can clearly see this effect, in the sand dune image, at Lloyd Chambers’ Diglloyd site. (I am a paid subscriber; well worth the minimal cost.) I was, already, planning to hold fast, to my M10 + M Type 246 cameras, for an extended period of time, so, seeing this effect provides me with another reason to avoid “upgrading” camera bodies. If I feel compelled to add a newer-model body, perhaps it will be a well-preserved, pre-owned M10-P, for the quieter shutter mechanism.

Edited to add: I live relatively near a Leica dealer, so have the option of visiting, to test a pre-owned camera, before buying, so, could bring an SD card, and shoot test images, then do the homework, to check for bifurcation, before buying. So, it would be possible to buy a pre-owned M10 Monochrom, or M10-R, and be comfortable, regarding the bifurcation issue. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by RexGig0

[gordec]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

1 hour ago, RexGig0 said:

I can clearly see this effect, in the sand dune image, at Lloyd Chambers’ Diglloyd site. (I am a paid subscriber; well worth the minimal cost.) I was, already, planning to hold fast, to my M10 + M Type 246 cameras, for an extended period of time, so, seeing this effect provides me with another reason to avoid “upgrading” camera bodies. If I feel compelled to add a newer-model body, perhaps it will be a well-preserved, pre-owned M10-P, for the quieter shutter mechanism.

Edited to add: I live relatively near a Leica dealer, so have the option of visiting, to test a pre-owned camera, before buying, so, could bring an SD card, and shoot test images, then do the homework, to check for bifurcation, before buying. So, it would be possible to buy a pre-owned M10 Monochrom, or M10-R, and be comfortable, regarding the bifurcation issue. 

Not sure how the used market price is in Europe. In the US, it's more than $1000 difference between a similar condition M10 and M10P. I love to have the quieter shutter and touch screen, but it's not worth $1000.