Used M10 prices plateaued?

[Big John]

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Joined Leica with the SL when it came out and still using it, mainly with Zeiss glass, occasionally with my 24-90.  Have to give in to years long urge to have an M and think the M10 is best route in for me. Have tried the 10 and 11 in stores, not prepared to drop the £ for an 11 as I still harbour a bit of concern re rangefinder patch focusing. I am v happy manuals focussing my Zeiss lenses via the SL EVF.  Just hobby use - bit of street, general use, family and maybe landscape. 
 

What are thoughts on used M10 prices now (in U.K.) given that the M11 has been out over 6 months and is available. Would you recommend I push for an M10P?

 

Thanks. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Big John

[David_Manning]

Just received my lightly used M10-P today, in black chrome.  I'm the absolute wrong person to ask...but I love it, I'm enthusiastic, and prices seem to have leveled out more reasonably.

 

I like the look of the -P model, and the shutter sound is quiet and sexy.  Coming from an M9...totally different world.

IMG_5638.heic

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[jakontil]

7 hours ago, Big John said:

Joined Leica with the SL when it came out and still using it, mainly with Zeiss glass, occasionally with my 24-90.  Have to give in to years long urge to have an M and think the M10 is best route in for me. Have tried the 10 and 11 in stores, not prepared to drop the £ for an 11 as I still harbour a bit of concern re rangefinder patch focusing. I am v happy manuals focussing my Zeiss lenses via the SL EVF.  Just hobby use - bit of street, general use, family and maybe landscape. 
 

What are thoughts on used M10 prices now (in U.K.) given that the M11 has been out over 6 months and is available. Would you recommend I push for an M10P?

 

Thanks. 

Some benefits from m10p was quieter shutter and touchscreen… could be useful when focusing through lcd and a more discreet not so discreet looks without the red logo, some prefer the leica script

i’d favour a move with m10-p or whichever camera with a fair price and lighter usage 

[KenLW]

I started with looking at Leica M11 because of USB-C charging and then M10 because of the price which is very reasonable consider that's all the pixels you need. I definitely like the look of M10-P better but the price is out of my range. With the extra money, you can get a decent second hand Leica lens.

[timo01]

take the M10  the shutter is not that much loud  

I'm switching from the q2 to the M10 and i really enjoy the camera. The switching was the best decision. 

[i-Leica]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb timo01:

I'm switching from the q2 to the M10 and i really enjoy the camera. The switching was the best decision. 

why?....... can you explain please?

Edited August 5, 2022 by i-Leica

[timo01]

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The q2 is a very good camera but for me it didn't feel like a leica. More like a sony or fuji. I also didn't really get on with the 28mm. I also have an M8 and a week after I bought the q2 I wanted the m10. So i switched and now im really really happy  

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by timo01

[Rezinator]

I moved from the SL with the 24-90 to the M10 about two weeks ago and couldn’t be happier!

Although the SL was great, it felt too heavy and big to walk around with even with M lenses.

I traded my SL and 24-90, M to L adapter for a CPO’d M10 with two year warranty and Visoflex. The rangefinder focusing is a little slower, you can nail critical focus with the Visoflex. The M10 sensor works better with M lenses, I’m extremely happy with the photos that I’m getting from it. 

Edited August 5, 2022 by Rezinator

[chemist]

Hi all

I believe the M10 R is the last classic.  Go for this. The race for resolution anyway goes on. The 10 R still has the old shutter, nice sound, more than enough resolution and is still the old animal. The M11 isnt. This is the first of a changing and more sensitive technology. The robustness will go away. As do the SL lenses. Way more prone to repair. No wonder. Electronics. Leica name remains but performance goes up to points where its measurable but not relevant for average customers. A new Porsche will not run  300 000 km either. The fascinating part of these historic technology objects is their robustness. Using an Leica I standard is incredible today - since it still works with a bit of cleaning and lubrication. 

[shanefking]

M10 is great.  You’ll love it.

 

P is maybe an improvement *if* you shoot in silent environments, need a level, or love touch screens. 

[Big John]

15 hours ago, chemist said:

Hi all

I believe the M10 R is the last classic.  Go for this. The race for resolution anyway goes on. The 10 R still has the old shutter, nice sound, more than enough resolution and is still the old animal. The M11 isnt. This is the first of a changing and more sensitive technology. The robustness will go away. As do the SL lenses. Way more prone to repair. No wonder. Electronics. Leica name remains but performance goes up to points where its measurable but not relevant for average customers. A new Porsche will not run  300 000 km either. The fascinating part of these historic technology objects is their robustness. Using an Leica I standard is incredible today - since it still works with a bit of cleaning and lubrication. 

Thanks everyone. The differences between the M10 and the M10P are less of a factor in my mind than the difference between the sensor in those models and the M10R.  And I don’t mean about resolution - as I am happy with 24MP - I mean more about the age differences between the seniors. Is it worth stumping up more cash for an R, even if I shoot it at 24MP?
 

And on prices - do folk think the M10 price (in U.K.) is now fallen to a good point to get one?  Thanks. 

[shanefking]

Depends on your situation.
 

the M9 was a fine camera, the *only* reason I upgraded was because of sensor corrosion.  
 

M10R is supposed to do better in the highlights than M10, but you could simply know to meter for the highlights and work with the histogram to avoid blowing anything out.

Bottom line there is nothing wrong with either, and the M10 doesn’t have the same flaw that older cameras faced.  It should hold up for an even longer time.

[pgh]

4 hours ago, shanefking said:

 

M10R is supposed to do better in the highlights than M10, but you could simply know to meter for the highlights and work with the histogram to avoid blowing anything out.

Yea - you can do this, but you give up something with the M10 sensor either way (the shadows if you have to protect the highlights). That said, the difference in practice...not a lot, but, when it matters it can matter a good bit. The M10 does indeed lack in dynamic range compared to most full frame sensors even when it came out.

I still have my M10 and am happy with that usually - and at this point I am attached to the camera because it's been through some stuff with me - but if I had the cash I would get an R (and an M). The sensors would be the only reason - the rest of the changes don't matter a whit to me. Touch screen, shutter, whatever. I do wish I could print a bit larger and shoot at ISO 100 (if you shoot at 100 your blown highlight problem will be worse) - that's just the sensor. 

I don't think you can go wrong. I have a feeling over time I will be grabbing a few more M10 variants - my printers aren't gonna get any worse at making a 40" print from the same file over time - and I'm just not that fond of the M11 feel, even though it's a fantastic camera by all objective measures. 

[jakontil]

12 hours ago, Big John said:

Thanks everyone. The differences between the M10 and the M10P are less of a factor in my mind than the difference between the sensor in those models and the M10R.  And I don’t mean about resolution - as I am happy with 24MP - I mean more about the age differences between the seniors. Is it worth stumping up more cash for an R, even if I shoot it at 24MP?
 

And on prices - do folk think the M10 price (in U.K.) is now fallen to a good point to get one?  Thanks. 

I made a jump to R knowing the 24mpx was quite sufficient for me, but sometimes when i shot daylights, native iso 200 was a little too much, and highlights were blows easily, not much recovery compared to R, but it is there when i need it, and iso 100 natively

i feel that in terms of sensor, from m10p to R is more significant than R to M11, strictly to sensor improvement 

i have both, and now it seems my sweet spot mpx no longer a 24, but rather 36-40mpx, i dont usually crop too

[Cthulhu]

On 8/5/2022 at 11:29 AM, KenLW said:

I started with looking at Leica M11 because of USB-C charging

I would stay away from using a camera as a charger. My advice…Just get a charger. 

On 8/6/2022 at 6:56 PM, Big John said:

Is it worth stumping up more cash for an R, even if I shoot it at 24MP?

Not only is the highlight recovery night and day, but the character of the lenses shine through more on the M10R sensor. It’s just a much better sensor that’s all there is to it. It’s not just about more megapixels. 

the cropping ability allows for a lot more flexibility in post. 

The M10P is lovely, but if you want to feel an upgrade from whatever you had before Leica, then the M10R sensor is the one you want. 

[chris_tribble]

On 8/7/2022 at 1:02 AM, jakontil said:

I made a jump to R knowing the 24mpx was quite sufficient for me, but sometimes when i shot daylights, native iso 200 was a little too much, and highlights were blows easily, not much recovery compared to R, but it is there when i need it, and iso 100 natively

 

These were largely my reasons too.  I had M10's from launch and was very happy with them apart from the base ISO and highlight retention.  I tried the M11 and didn't enjoy it (shutter sound and start up in particular - and I missed the base plate).  The M10-R files match beautifully with the Q2 and SL2 - I may never get another new RF... 

Edited August 19, 2022 by chris_tribble

[jakontil]

3 minutes ago, chris_tribble said:

These were largely my reasons too.  I had M10's from launch and was very happy with them apart from the base ISO and highlight retention.  I tried the M11 and didn't enjoy it (shutter sound and start up in particular - and I missed the base plate).  The M10-R files match beautifully with the Q2 and SL2 - I may never get another new RF... 

hi chris, actually i made an addition to the M11 but due to the fact that i love so much of the black paint i have, i was intrigued with practical use of the M11 in a way it boasts a usb c port and a much stronger battery life

i often carry a spare or two with my m10’s but with the m11 though i have the spare, it will only go down to about 80% that with a session of turning on the wifi to transfer huge files

however, i cant part with my m10r bp, in fact since the files were quite head to head with M11, it played quite well along side each other and probably would act as my backup

[jonnyboy]

I'm not an M10 owner but the prices in UK has plunged...and a lot. One sold on eBay just few days ago for 3K in really great conditions. 
If your budget allow, maybe the M10-R may be a better choice - personally, I think 24MP sensors are going to stay for quite a while as they been a great standard for years now. I think it depends on the budget, you know the R will cost you at least an extra £1k.

[gordec]

I was very set on a M10R here in the US, but ended up getting a M10 for a great deal locally. The money I saved went into a 35 Lux FLE. I really want a M10R though. Some told me sensor bifurcation may be problematic in M10R and difficult to repair. That’s another reason which made me just go for a M10.

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[jakontil]

8 hours ago, gordec said:

I was very set on a M10R here in the US, but ended up getting a M10 for a great deal locally. The money I saved went into a 35 Lux FLE. I really want a M10R though. Some told me sensor bifurcation may be problematic in M10R and difficult to repair. That’s another reason which made me just go for a M10.

Just wondering, what do you mean by sensor bifurcation in M10r?