Time to Upgrade to M 11 (from M9)

[Edwin Ho]

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I've owned an M9 (traded in M8.2 for full frame) since 2012 and intend to keep it. Sensor was replaced by Leica in 2015. Meanwhile, over several years, I have acquired the following lenses:

• Elmarit 28mm f/2.8 Asph
• Summicron 35mm f/2.0 Asph II
• Summarit 50mm f/2.4
• Summarit 75mm f2.4

Note: No plans to go beyond 75mm for photography using a rangefinder.

I have been reading reviews of Leica Ms manufactured after the M9, namely ME, M240, M Typ 262, M10 and finally the M10R.

I am contemplating skipping the earlier Ms and buy the M11 and would be pleased if anyone who already owns the M11 share his (her) thoughts and opinions about this camera, thank you.

 

[geotrupede]

I got one a week ago and has been a steep learning curve which I did not expect. Coming from M9/M9MM and SL2S there were quite few things to get used to. It depends on the type of use too.

So,

rangefinder is very nice. feels larger than M9 but maybe is illusion.

screen to the rear is very nice and much better than in M9, but smaller than SL2 series

setting up the iso is cool with the top wheel, but forget the menu as there are too many intermediate stops and the number are too small to read.  also you have a slight different selection method since M9, no need to keep pressed menu to switch values. keeping button down brings up the button customisation menu. confusing if you are used to M9. so top wheel is for me 😉

the shutter button feels very different from m9 so getting use to it takes time

the touch screen and interface is cool but perhaps the M9 is simpler to operate so that is not necessarily a plus.

the startup time is extra long, when the camera goes to sleep mode, waking up takes forever. believe it or not the M9 is FASTER!!! This is a weak spot.

However the speed to shooting, the buffer, the burst are unreal, really responsive and great. another league. you will like this. M9 feels like daguerreotype in comparison.

to me an important feature is the ability to change DNG files means you can keep small memory footprint on your storage

ISO is another league compared to M9, you can easily shoot at 3200, 6400 and 10000. There is noise, but the type you see at ISO 800 on the M9...   so you will like this.

and then there is another thing, which allows many possibilities, the auto ISO. I always considered this a gimmick, but in the case of M11 is a way to keep the noise to the minimum (and minimum is little).

as for details and sharpness. this is a tricky one. with M8 and M9 you can see the pixel level details. it is like zooming in you see those incredible small details. With the M11 these details are there but somehow less defined. Perhaps because you can see even smaller one. Hard to say, but when you print everything is better, so M11 is obviously a better tool.

external viewfinder I have not tried, not sure I need it. if something like that is required i would prefer the SL2 system.

Good luck with your purchase! 

G>

 

 

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[geotrupede]

I should add, everything is subjective, the weighting of features and what use you have for a camera, your style, etc 

So best is to go and test it out. I know that leicastore allows you to borrow for a day or so. worth doing it in case you are unsure.

G>

 

[Edwin Ho]

geotrupede, thank you very much for sharing your experience.

[rawlit]

Been using my M9 for the last 4 years, just bought an M11 yesterday 

Still learning how to make the best use of the camera, going through my lenses to see how they render

Overall, I can attest that -

- The M11 has got way too many settings coming from my M9. I enjoy the M9 near-analog simplicity. I do appreciate the added M11 highlights weighted exposure 

- all lenses perform better on M11, and I have anything from a 98mm 1.4 to noctilux F1 and multiple other vintage lenses as well as modern ones. Noctilux F1 blew me away, never got this performance from my M9, anything from sharpeness to contrast and corner performance, it made me rethink of its usability

- color of M9 has a different dimensionality and palpability to the images it produces, M11 is somehow flatter and closer to my X1D in color and files are very malleable. Skin tone requires no editing, using Capture One you get the most out of your raw files.

Staying on color, I feel like the M11 covers a wider gamut of colors therefore letting you see more and closer to what you're capturing, while the M9's limited color gamut shows a somewhat "limited" range of colors, with its own character. I still have mixed feelings on which I like best. 

- EVF comes in handy with noctilux or faster/longer focal length glass like my 98mm 1.4 or Komura 105mm f2. It does add bulk and I'll try not to rely on it to enjoy the RF experience and again simplicity 

I'm considering keeping the M9 for now 

Technically this M11 is great, yet I've still got mixed feelings, will be shooting in the streets and portraits and see if I change my mind 

Ale

 

 

 

[elmars]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb rawlit:

M11 is somehow flatter

You will get used to it soon. This was a big concern after introducing the M240. Try to increase contrast - by choosing the profile Adobe color or by setting the contrast slider a bit to the right or (better imhO) increasing clarity a bit or by choosing a mid contrast tone curve (instead of linear).

[Kwesi]

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Hi Edwin,

Your transition to the M11 from the M9 reminds me of my transition from the M7 to M9. On the one hand, everything about the shooting experience felt very familiar and yet because of the digital technology and the buttons that came along with it, the M9 was a radically different camera. Going from the M9 to M11 will feel similar. I've owned mine since it was introduced in January and so I'm no longer playing with features I didn't have on my M10 P just to see what they do. The sensor output will blow your mind - its that good. Good news is that your Summicron and Summarits are all up to the task and you will think you've bought new lenses. 

[Edwin Ho]

Thank you rawlit, elmars and Kwesi for sharing.

[tom0511]

I have been using the M11 as a beta camera and later bought one for myself.

I am quite happy with the M11. Specially the exposure metering is - for my taste- better than any M before - even though it can be off occasionally.

Battery is also great.

Compared to the M9 you will gain a lot better higher ISO, more consistent color, specially in mixed light, a more reliable rangefinder, better battery, loading battery vs usb cable, fast acces to battery and sd card...

Since the M9 is popular for the out of camera "pop and colors" you might need a little time to get the M11 files to your liking. I would recommend capture one over lightroom at the moment for the M11. Also you have less buttons, but a fast menue - so it might take you a little time to get used to the different user interface.

[Photoworks]

I think the M9 is a camera to get use to, and so is the Leica M11

the key qualities are:

- Still no AF, no face detect whatsoever .

- the sensor is huge. 60MP but strange that it only covers 35mm. huge!

- NO IBIS. not sure anyone need help shaking the 60MP sensor. I am sure you find a way to do it yourself.

- Rangefinder is the same old form M10, frame lines have not moved since the film days, the OLED EVF won't fit. and there is no button to switch to EVF anyway.

- You can't drop the base plate anymore. The new sport is to drop the battery. I starting this game with plus points since I have done this already. a benefit is that you can see if you are missing the battery before you go out without removing base plate.

- coming from the m9 you may feel the need to push buttons and there are so many less on the M11. some you can even change what they do!

- Colors! should we talk about body color. No race comments here. I went black this time. But I like to address sensor colors, or better said color performance, I don't think the sensor fiscal color is relevant . Coming from M9 you maybe shocked to find more colors in real life and this camera is truly my best color camera after the SL2. the files are beautiful out of camera in Capture one and they take any film simulation perfectly. The DR is much better that M10. this is the most exiting part about this camera. 

- connection. I forgot how the wifi worked on the M9. not even sure in 2009 there was 2.4 and 5 wifi. well now you have both, plus BT, plus USB-c if you forgot how to turn wifi on.
The strange fact that it is quicker to transfer the 100MB DNG files over wifi than the ultra modern USB-C cable. 
you can still take out the SD card and use it the same way as before.  Wifi has not be able to charge your battery. You still need a charger for that and or a USB-C cable.

- storage! you SD card still work the same way! since you don't have base plate anymore, and you can see if you have a battery, it is not so simple to see the SD card if the battery is inserted. The internal storage comes in handy at this point. The camera has 64GB of it. Why ? Well I don't know. maybe so many complain they don't want to miss the show on one card, but they complain so much and they never take the shot because they are to busy complaining. Well now they are 2 options to fail, internal and SD. and you can format both all day long and copy files from IN to SD. 
I actually find myself using the IN 64gb most of the time  and copy to SD on the way home. Internal memory is responsive and fast. if you doing many images quickly the buffer clears zippy fast.  At this point of FW reading the IN with a cable is limited by LrC, it is still beta, and I don't find Lightroom fits me.

- Life! live if good with the M11, everyone wow's it.
if you are talking about battery that is amazing too. almost never use the 2nd battery. 1700 shots on rangefinder.

- Live-view, view on life! the EVF in the rangefinder has not been activated and it is missing the switch button. you can spend more money and get the q2 finder on the M11. It works most of the time. Grrrr! when it does not work. It is not the quality of a SL2, focusing manual is a challenge sometime. the eye cup is missing and side light makes framing and framing in some situations. But it is a must if you have lenses more than 28mm, if you like to use filters, or just want to see the bokeh balls before taking the photo.
of course they forgot to add the 2nd hotshoe for the flash and or flash trigger.

- exposure metering! it is so much better than before, I have my camera work the Highlight option full time. the light hits the sensor and magic happens. no need for reflective stage inside the camera...

I am sure I forgot something. you all can add to it! OMG forgot to talk about price and availability, never mind you can get them everywhere now in any currency except rubles .

I think your lenses are all fine for this camera, now that I think of it the 28mm may be soft...

 

 

[mikelevitt]

8 hours ago, Edwin Ho said:

I've owned an M9 (traded in M8.2 for full frame) since 2012 and intend to keep it. Sensor was replaced by Leica in 2015. Meanwhile, over several years, I have acquired the following lenses:

• Elmarit 28mm f/2.8 Asph
• Summicron 35mm f/2.0 Asph II
• Summarit 50mm f/2.4
• Summarit 75mm f2.4

Note: No plans to go beyond 75mm for photography using a rangefinder.

I have been reading reviews of Leica Ms manufactured after the M9, namely ME, M240, M Typ 262, M10 and finally the M10R.

I am contemplating skipping the earlier Ms and buy the M11 and would be pleased if anyone who already owns the M11 share his (her) thoughts and opinions about this camera, thank you.

 

My advice is to keep the M9 forever.  It is a unique camera and will never be duplicated...

Having said that, as somebody who has owned one of every generation of Leica's digital effort (m8, M9, M10, M11) the M11 is by far the best of them, worth the money.  

You will love it.

 

[Edwin Ho]

Thank you mikelevitt, photoworks and tom0511 for your input.

[Edwin Ho]

19 hours ago, tom0511 said:

 I would recommend capture one over lightroom at the moment for the M11.

I currently have LR6 classic residing on my "old PC" with Windows 7. Opted not to migrate to later versions of LR as I am not prepared to pay monthly subscription on Cloud. Photos are stored in an external hard drive (it is further backed up to another hard drive). Can pictures by stored in an external hard drive in Capture One?

I do have a second PC with Windows 10 and I can have Capture One installed on this PC if necessary. I do not know much about Capture One, but will explore this software on the internet.

 

 

[rramesh]

A new camera always has the latest features and capabilities. It also carries the price premium for newness. And being a digital camera, there will be a steep reduction in price over time.

You should first ask yourself, what capability you desire that the M9 is not able to address and then make a call. You can buy the M10, M10-P, M10-R at good condition and at discounted prices in the resale market.

You might want to consider this as an option.

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, Edwin Ho said:

I currently have LR6 classic residing on my "old PC" with Windows 7. Opted not to migrate to later versions of LR as I am not prepared to pay monthly subscription on Cloud. Photos are stored in an external hard drive (it is further backed up to another hard drive). Can pictures by stored in an external hard drive in Capture One?

I do have a second PC with Windows 10 and I can have Capture One installed on this PC if necessary. I do not know much about Capture One, but will explore this software on the internet.

 

 

Not sure LR6 will support Leica's DNG file from M11, maybe you will need to update Camera raw.

Capture one is a great solution for professionals, for volume editing and color control.

But there are other solutions out there. DxO photolab does work now, it is good for single image editing, but slow if you have 1000+ pix to edit

on the PC ACDsee can work... just look around.

I am paying $10 month for photoshop and it comes with Lightroom ( I don't use it) .My primary editing is Capture one Pro that you can buy often on sale 30% off, or monthly.

All this programs work from a hard drive , using the cloud is not required.

[chasdfg]

1 hour ago, Edwin Ho said:

I currently have LR6 classic residing on my "old PC" with Windows 7. Opted not to migrate to later versions of LR as I am not prepared to pay monthly subscription on Cloud. Photos are stored in an external hard drive (it is further backed up to another hard drive). Can pictures by stored in an external hard drive in Capture One?

I do have a second PC with Windows 10 and I can have Capture One installed on this PC if necessary. I do not know much about Capture One, but will explore this software on the internet.

 

 

I am using LR6 for my M11 photo editing, using the built-in M11 profile (not Adobe, since it is not updated). It works for the most part though I would think if you use an updated editing software with proper M11 support you might have better colours to work with (not so much of an issue for me as I have adjusted my presets) and probably better noise handling and other features when pushing files. I lack the technical vocabulary and knowledge to explain how a lack of support in software affects the post-production aspect - i just know ideally I should be using a software with M11 support. Someone can correct me here.

Long story short, LR6 should work generally, but one should use software which supports the M11 to get the most out of the files.

[Edwin Ho]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

All this programs work from a hard drive , using the cloud is not required.

Thank you, I shall explore this further.

Are you referring to Capture One Pro.

I understand there is also Capture One 22.

I am confused!

Edited August 3, 2022 by Edwin Ho
Added relevant information

[Photoworks]

43 minutes ago, Edwin Ho said:

Thank you, I shall explore this further.

Are you referring to Capture One Pro.

I understand there is also Capture One 22.

I am confused!

It is the same. They use to have a light vervion, that is no more

[Edwin Ho]

1 hour ago, chasdfg said:

I am using LR6 for my M11 photo editing, using the built-in M11 profile (not Adobe, since it is not updated). It works for the most part though I would think if you use an updated editing software with proper M11 support you might have better colours to work with (not so much of an issue for me as I have adjusted my presets) and probably better noise handling and other features when pushing files. I lack the technical vocabulary and knowledge to explain how a lack of support in software affects the post-production aspect - i just know ideally I should be using a software with M11 support. Someone can correct me here.

Long story short, LR6 should work generally, but one should use software which supports the M11 to get the most out of the files.

I confess for being a "tech dinosaur".  Does M11 come with a built-in profile that I can use in LR6.  I rather stay with LR6 without incurring additional cost as long as I can process the DNG files from M11.

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[insomnia]

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