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Big issue with the Q2 with manual exposure 😬


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I just stumbled upon a big “uh oh” with the SL2-S I’m renting and testing, and found out that it also happens on my Q2.

Here’s the issue 👇

When I am exposing manually (with PASM exposure preview turned on), once I half-press the shutter button to focus, the exposure preview jumps to something other than what I set. This is even worse in AF-C, as it previews improper exposure until I take the picture. 

So if I’m intentionally underexposing then scene, I lose the preview for this (and the ability to adjust exposure and preview it) once I focus. 

Is there a way to change this? I can’t figure it out and I’ve tried everything. Or is this intentional? If so, surely it’s a bug? And a big one!

If it helps, with more detail ... 

1. I set the exposure mode to manual, so I set aperture, SS and ISO. 
2. I underexpose the scene on purpose, which I can preview in the EVF/LCD. 
3. As soon as I half-press the shutter button, the exposure jumps to a "normal" exposure. Note that if my Exposure Compensation is +/- that preview when I half-press seems to represent that exposure compensation value. 

The image itself is exposed properly the way I intended during #2. But if I am constantly focusing (i.e. AF-C) and need to adjust shutter speed as I am going (which happens often), then I cannot preview the effects.

This is really bad …

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26 minutes ago, bcapphoto said:

I just stumbled upon a big “uh oh” with the SL2-S I’m renting and testing, and found out that it also happens on my Q2.

Here’s the issue 👇

When I am exposing manually (with PASM exposure preview turned on), once I half-press the shutter button to focus, the exposure preview jumps to something other than what I set. This is even worse in AF-C, as it previews improper exposure until I take the picture. 

So if I’m intentionally underexposing then scene, I lose the preview for this (and the ability to adjust exposure and preview it) once I focus. 

Is there a way to change this? I can’t figure it out and I’ve tried everything. Or is this intentional? If so, surely it’s a bug? And a big one!

If it helps, with more detail ... 

1. I set the exposure mode to manual, so I set aperture, SS and ISO. 
2. I underexpose the scene on purpose, which I can preview in the EVF/LCD. 
3. As soon as I half-press the shutter button, the exposure jumps to a "normal" exposure. Note that if my Exposure Compensation is +/- that preview when I half-press seems to represent that exposure compensation value. 

The image itself is exposed properly the way I intended during #2. But if I am constantly focusing (i.e. AF-C) and need to adjust shutter speed as I am going (which happens often), then I cannot preview the effects.

This is really bad …

With my Q2 in hand, this is what I observe.

With the shutter button half-pressed in M mode, the EVF will show what the image would look like when taking the shot. The exposure (shutter speed, aperture) does not change, but the histogram and highlight warnings display real values. The brightness of the image stored on the card is the same as the one when half-pressing the shutter, not the one displayed in the EVF when shutter is not half-pressed (easiest to confirm by enabling highlight warnings).

In M mode, I do not see exposure preview when shutter is not half-pressed. The exposure preview setting (P-A-S-M) does not seem to make any difference (?!?).

 

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6 minutes ago, SrMi said:

With my Q2 in hand, this is what I observe.

With the shutter button half-pressed in M mode, the EVF will show what the image would look like when taking the shot. The exposure (shutter speed, aperture) does not change, but the histogram and highlight warnings display real values. The brightness of the image stored on the card is the same as the one when half-pressing the shutter, not the one displayed in the EVF when shutter is not half-pressed (easiest to confirm by enabling highlight warnings).

In M mode, I do not see exposure preview when shutter is not half-pressed. The exposure preview setting (P-A-S-M) does not seem to make any difference (?!?).

 

That's odd. I just made a video showing it, but I can't upload here b/c it's too big. Here's a Dropbox link to it: 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t7v9ftvh1vv27mm/AACdJl5bxDs-9rkvp47VjEzVa?dl=0

What seems to be happening (on both my Q2 and SL2-S) is that the preview (when the shutter is half-pressed) is NOT what the image will look like. It just defaults to the exposure compensation value (probably because it opens up the aperture all the way, so it just tries to find a shutter speed based on it). That is so bad and so NOT the way it should work ...

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22 minutes ago, bcapphoto said:

That's odd. I just made a video showing it, but I can't upload here b/c it's too big. Here's a Dropbox link to it: 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t7v9ftvh1vv27mm/AACdJl5bxDs-9rkvp47VjEzVa?dl=0

What seems to be happening (on both my Q2 and SL2-S) is that the preview (when the shutter is half-pressed) is NOT what the image will look like. It just defaults to the exposure compensation value (probably because it opens up the aperture all the way, so it just tries to find a shutter speed based on it). That is so bad and so NOT the way it should work ...

Thank you for the video. It helped and I understand the issue.

This is what I observe in M mode. BTW, I suggest avoiding ISO 50 unless you understand its drawbacks.

When focusing in M mode, the camera opens the aperture and normalizes the brightness in the EVF. In AF-S, it appears as a brief flicker. In AF-C it appears as image that is neither too bright or too dark, and does not preview exposure.

In AF-S the half press shows correct exposure preview with half-press. In AF-C, the aperture stays wide open during focusing, and the EVF brightness is normalized (not too dark or too bright). In AF-C you can preview and set the exposure when not pressing the shutter.  Neither the histogram nor the preview are correct during focusing.

The preview is correct only when focusing is not active. Since you do not adjust exposure during focusing, the current behavior does not seem to be a problem. I actually wish it would be the case in other modes as well :), as framing an image with negative EC is difficult when details in shadows are hidden because exposure preview is active.

 

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49 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Thank you for the video. It helped and I understand the issue.

This is what I observe in M mode. BTW, I suggest avoiding ISO 50 unless you understand its drawbacks.

When focusing in M mode, the camera opens the aperture and normalizes the brightness in the EVF. In AF-S, it appears as a brief flicker. In AF-C it appears as image that is neither too bright or too dark, and does not preview exposure.

In AF-S the half press shows correct exposure preview with half-press. In AF-C, the aperture stays wide open during focusing, and the EVF brightness is normalized (not too dark or too bright). In AF-C you can preview and set the exposure when not pressing the shutter.  Neither the histogram nor the preview are correct during focusing.

The preview is correct only when focusing is not active. Since you do not adjust exposure during focusing, the current behavior does not seem to be a problem. I actually wish it would be the case in other modes as well :), as framing an image with negative EC is difficult when details in shadows are hidden because exposure preview is active.

 

The weird thing though is - if you set your exposure compensation to, say, +2 or -2, then when you half-press the shutter, that’s what you see. 
 

When tracking a subject in AF-C, I often change exposure (ie imagine a bride walking down the aisle and the light is changing), so adjusting exposure while also focusing is very common. 
 

I’ve shot lots of mirrorless cameras and have never seen this behaviour. Super odd IMO. 

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1 hour ago, bcapphoto said:

The weird thing though is - if you set your exposure compensation to, say, +2 or -2, then when you half-press the shutter, that’s what you see. 
 

When tracking a subject in AF-C, I often change exposure (ie imagine a bride walking down the aisle and the light is changing), so adjusting exposure while also focusing is very common. 
 

I’ve shot lots of mirrorless cameras and have never seen this behaviour. Super odd IMO. 

Now I think it is a bug that the Exposure Review setting is not applied during focusing when in fully M mode.
Exposure preview is maintained in Misomatic mode (Auto-ISO in M mode). It may be a solution for your workflow, and by changing EC in M mode you will change the ISO value.
Applying EC in full M mode (no Auto-ISO) does not seem to have any effect on the final image as it does not change the exposure. The only effect of EC is viewable in the preview when the shutter is half-pressed in AF-C mode. Therefore, if you set the exposure to be 2 stops underexposed, then assign -2 EC, the exposure in AF-C will match what you see with the shutter half-pressed or not pressed as EC only adjusts the brightness in the preview when the shutter is half-pressed (AF-C).
Weird :).

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24 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Now I think it is a bug that the Exposure Review setting is not applied during focusing when in fully M mode.
Exposure preview is maintained in Misomatic mode (Auto-ISO in M mode). It may be a solution for your workflow, and by changing EC in M mode you will change the ISO value.
Applying EC in full M mode (no Auto-ISO) does not seem to have any effect on the final image as it does not change the exposure. The only effect of EC is viewable in the preview when the shutter is half-pressed in AF-C mode. Therefore, if you set the exposure to be 2 stops underexposed, then assign -2 EC, the exposure in AF-C will match what you see with the shutter half-pressed or not pressed as EC only adjusts the brightness in the preview when the shutter is half-pressed (AF-C).
Weird :).

Yeah, weird right?

 

It would be annoying to have to always mirror exposure compensation to my intended manual exposure. That’s 2x settings to change for every adjustment. Might as well shoot in aperture priority at that point. 
 

This has to be a bug, no?

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19 minutes ago, bcapphoto said:

Yeah, weird right?

 

It would be annoying to have to always mirror exposure compensation to my intended manual exposure. That’s 2x settings to change for every adjustment. Might as well shoot in aperture priority at that point. 
 

This has to be a bug, no?

Yes, looks like a bug to me.

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12 hours ago, bcapphoto said:

I just stumbled upon a big “uh oh” with the SL2-S I’m renting and testing, and found out that it also happens on my Q2.

Here’s the issue 👇

When I am exposing manually (with PASM exposure preview turned on), once I half-press the shutter button to focus, the exposure preview jumps to something other than what I set. This is even worse in AF-C, as it previews improper exposure until I take the picture. 

So if I’m intentionally underexposing then scene, I lose the preview for this (and the ability to adjust exposure and preview it) once I focus. 

Is there a way to change this? I can’t figure it out and I’ve tried everything. Or is this intentional? If so, surely it’s a bug? And a big one!

If it helps, with more detail ... 

1. I set the exposure mode to manual, so I set aperture, SS and ISO. 
2. I underexpose the scene on purpose, which I can preview in the EVF/LCD. 
3. As soon as I half-press the shutter button, the exposure jumps to a "normal" exposure. Note that if my Exposure Compensation is +/- that preview when I half-press seems to represent that exposure compensation value. 

The image itself is exposed properly the way I intended during #2. But if I am constantly focusing (i.e. AF-C) and need to adjust shutter speed as I am going (which happens often), then I cannot preview the effects.

This is really bad …

Maybe you need to work out on the rdc/lcd setup light ? 

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36 minutes ago, bcapphoto said:

I seriously can't believe more people aren't outraged and upset by this. This is a SURE thing - it's happening to the Q, Q2, SL2, SL2-S. It's UNUSABLE in any manual shooting if you're going to use AF-C. Super diapointing!

I am sorry that this issue affects your workflow.

I assume that very few people need exposure preview while focusing is active. It is likely that most, like me, adjust the exposure before pressing the shutter button, and release the shutter button if exposure needs adjustments.

It seems that your workflow is not typical, but I hope that Leica fixes it.

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6 hours ago, bcapphoto said:

I seriously can't believe more people aren't outraged and upset by this. This is a SURE thing - it's happening to the Q, Q2, SL2, SL2-S. It's UNUSABLE in any manual shooting if you're going to use AF-C. Super diapointing!

I never use AF-C, always AF-S or (on the SL2-S) iAF. I never manually expose (I usually use A mode + exposure compensation). I don't often intentionally underexpose a scene, except when using highlight-weighted autoexposure. I only half press the shutter button to get focus, and never worry about exposure while half pressed.

Sorry, I can't feel outraged and upset by something I have never noticed.

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vor 18 Minuten schrieb LocalHero1953:

I never use AF-C, always AF-S or (on the SL2-S) iAF. I never manually expose (I usually use A mode + exposure compensation). I don't often intentionally underexpose a scene, except when using highlight-weighted autoexposure. I only half press the shutter button to get focus, and never worry about exposure while half pressed.

Sorry, I can't feel outraged and upset by something I have never noticed.

It is important for the OP, and while I am also using the camera in a way that this doesn't affect me, I can sympathize with him cause it makes it hard for him to use the camera the way he would like to.

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4 minutes ago, clasami said:

It is important for the OP, and while I am also using the camera in a way that this doesn't affect me, I can sympathize with him cause it makes it hard for him to use the camera the way he would like to.

I do sympathise with him. He was surprised that others were not equally outraged. I explained why I was not.

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8 hours ago, SrMi said:

I assume that very few people need exposure preview while focusing is active. It is likely that most, like me, adjust the exposure before pressing the shutter button, and release the shutter button if exposure needs adjustments.

It seems that your workflow is not typical, but I hope that Leica fixes it.

I guess this is what just - generally - confuses me, haha. 

I've been a full-time pro wedding photographer for 16 years now. Sure - for parts of what I shoot at a wedding or during a portrait session, I use aperture priority mode. But I couldn't imagine not being able/comfortable to shoot in manual exposure mode during a session. And being forced to shoot AF-S is really limiting; that means you cannot introduce any movement in your work. 

I just didn't think that shooting in manual exposure mode with continuous autofocus was that niche. And at least I thought that a system that is one of the most luxurious (and expensive) systems out there - it would be able to work for this kind of basic scenario. 

(Not an attack on you - please don't take offence. Just sharing that this seems like a huge oversight on Leica's part) 

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A few examples of how/why you'd shoot this way. I thought this was fairly standard? 

 

#1 - I'm photographing a bride walk down the aisle. I've set the exposure manually because she's backlit by the doors. As she walks towards me, the light from the front of the church is brighter. I'd want to transition to a faster shutter speed (while tracking her and photographing her). With Leica, I cannot see the effects of that shutter speed change while focusing.

 

#2 - I'm photographing a lifestyle family session and I have them positioned up against a really bright coloured wall. I've set the exposure manually. I'm using AF-C because they're moving around and I want to keep shooting fluidly, but as soon as I half-press the shutter, the auto mode takes over and shows me them underexposed.

 
These are very normal and average shooting scenarios that I easily encounter at EVERy session. So this would get in the way EVERY session. 
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For clarification: are you trying to adjust exposure while your finger has half pressed the shutter button?
(I don't have the skill for that - doing anything with the shutter button half-pressed results in me inadvertently taking a shot).

In scenarios where focus moves and exposure changes, I use autoexposure+EC and AF-S. I don't see your practice as niche at all, but there is a very wide range of photographic practice out there.

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7 hours ago, bcapphoto said:

I guess this is what just - generally - confuses me, haha. 

I've been a full-time pro wedding photographer for 16 years now. Sure - for parts of what I shoot at a wedding or during a portrait session, I use aperture priority mode. But I couldn't imagine not being able/comfortable to shoot in manual exposure mode during a session. And being forced to shoot AF-S is really limiting; that means you cannot introduce any movement in your work. 

I just didn't think that shooting in manual exposure mode with continuous autofocus was that niche. And at least I thought that a system that is one of the most luxurious (and expensive) systems out there - it would be able to work for this kind of basic scenario. 

(Not an attack on you - please don't take offence. Just sharing that this seems like a huge oversight on Leica's part) 

No worries, I understand your pain. Your technique requires changing exposure while AF-C is active.  

Shooting in M mode with AF-C is common, but changing the exposure while AF-C is active is less common. 

AFAIK, all modes except M-mode lock exposure while the shutter is half-pressed, regardless if it is AF-C or AF-S.

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On 7/4/2022 at 6:55 PM, bcapphoto said:

I seriously can't believe more people aren't outraged and upset by this. This is a SURE thing - it's happening to the Q, Q2, SL2, SL2-S. It's UNUSABLE in any manual shooting if you're going to use AF-C. Super diapointing!

So in the years now that the Q/Q2/SL2/SL2-s has been available this is the first time I have seen anyone concerned about this issue.  So it would seem that it is an 'issue' that applies to your very specific shooting method, and not an issue for 99% of users.

I can understand you would like to see a fix (and maybe Leica can rectify it in a firmware update)...but expecting everyone to be outraged over something that doesn't in anyway affect them is a bit of a reach.

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