Shutter lag comments from Jesko von Oeynhausen

[gabrielaszalos]

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I was in the Amsterdam store today to try out the new M11M. I took a bunch of shots around the store and on some occasions the shutter wasn’t firing unless I held the button down for a significant amount of time. That was very odd. I wonder if that’s the same issue or if that camera was faulty in some way. For me, I don’t care how well the shutter sound is aligned, how many times it opens and closes or how long it takes for the process to complete, but I do care significantly about how long it takes between the time I press the shutter and the time the exposure is taken…

Edited April 18, 2023 by gabrielaszalos

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[SrMi]

4 hours ago, gabrielaszalos said:

I was in the Amsterdam store today to try out the new M11M. I took a bunch of shots around the store and on some occasions the shutter wasn’t firing unless I held the button down for a significant amount of time. That was very odd. I wonder if that’s the same issue or if that camera was faulty in some way. For me, I don’t care how well the shutter sound is aligned, how many times it opens and closes or how long it takes for the process to complete, but I do care significantly about how long it takes between the time I press the shutter and the time the exposure is taken…

That is certainly not typical M11 behavior.

[elmars]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb gabrielaszalos:

I was in the Amsterdam store today to try out the new M11M. I took a bunch of shots around the store and on some occasions the shutter wasn’t firing unless I held the button down for a significant amount of time. That was very odd. I wonder if that’s the same issue or if that camera was faulty in some way. For me, I don’t care how well the shutter sound is aligned, how many times it opens and closes or how long it takes for the process to complete, but I do care significantly about how long it takes between the time I press the shutter and the time the exposure is taken…

This is normal behavior if the internal buffer is full. This needs about 10 to 13 shots in short time (one direct after the other). You can go on shooting after the buffer is empty enough for one new shot.

Edited April 19, 2023 by elmars

[gabrielaszalos]

13 hours ago, elmars said:

This is normal behavior if the internal buffer is full. This needs about 10 to 13 shots in short time (one direct after the other). You can go on shooting after the buffer is empty enough for one new shot.

I did not do any continuous shooting. I don't do that style of photography. I take single shots, slowly. So yeah, probably either faulty, or misunderstanding on my part. I have ordered an M11 Monochrom for myself. I should get it next week and I'll play around with it more. I'll report back

[Duderino Johnson]

It’s interesting, I’ve been reading through a bunch of comments on the various threads containing this shutter lag issue on the M11 and it seems like folks are having a hard time understanding each other. There are a few different issues at play apparently. Here’s what I experience with my brand new M11 Monochrom. 

In single shot mode:

I press the shutter and the camera takes a picture. I don’t experience any delay in response to pressing the shutter thank god. 

But wait…

I try and press the shutter again to take a photo rapidly after the first shot. Ah yes… a 2nd shot. 

What happens then you ask?? 

The camera can’t respond  as quickly as I would like it to by taking another shot. If I press the shutter twice within a short period the 2nd photo will not be taken at the moment I press the shutter but fire as soon as the camera can get it together to do so which seems like an eternity. It is in point of fact the exact opposite of the decisive moment. Sort of feels like the camera is drunk. 

Now what’s really odd is that in fast continuous mode the shutter fires much faster with much less delay between shots. It truly makes no sense and if it can’t be fixed by a firmware update or changing a setting it’s a monumental flaw in the design of the camera. It’s in the category of things that are “Riddiculous” . It borders on being criminal. 

[jaapv]

Does the delay also happen if you shoot with a fixed shutter speed instead of in A?

[mrmalo]

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6 hours ago, Duderino Johnson said:

It’s interesting, I’ve been reading through a bunch of comments on the various threads containing this shutter lag issue on the M11 and it seems like folks are having a hard time understanding each other. There are a few different issues at play apparently. Here’s what I experience with my brand new M11 Monochrom. 

In single shot mode:

I press the shutter and the camera takes a picture. I don’t experience any delay in response to pressing the shutter thank god. 

But wait…

I try and press the shutter again to take a photo rapidly after the first shot. Ah yes… a 2nd shot. 

What happens then you ask?? 

The camera can’t respond  as quickly as I would like it to by taking another shot. If I press the shutter twice within a short period the 2nd photo will not be taken at the moment I press the shutter but fire as soon as the camera can get it together to do so which seems like an eternity. It is in point of fact the exact opposite of the decisive moment. Sort of feels like the camera is drunk. 

Now what’s really odd is that in fast continuous mode the shutter fires much faster with much less delay between shots. It truly makes no sense and if it can’t be fixed by a firmware update or changing a setting it’s a monumental flaw in the design of the camera. It’s in the category of things that are “Riddiculous” . It borders on being criminal. 

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. I'm surprised this issue hasn't been talked about more...

I guess you are more likely to come across these problems if you zone focus versus manually focusing each time you take a photo.

I shoot in manual and zone focus when on the street. F8/ISO400/1/2000 (single shot mode, savings photos to internal storage). If I take more than one shot in "fast" succession the camera will always miss shots.

It is something I have learned to live with and feels like the camera has the final say over the decisive moment, but it does seem so ridiculous. Sometimes, the camera responds to every shutter press. When this happens it feels like a real gift! 

I've tried using continuous low, but find it very hard to trigger single shots with it.

[lct]

6 hours ago, Duderino Johnson said:

It truly makes no sense and if it can’t be fixed by a firmware update or changing a setting it’s a monumental flaw in the design of the camera. It’s in the category of things that are “Riddiculous” . It borders on being criminal. 

To say the least  I would set Auto Review to Off (main menu page 2) and report here.

Edited May 19, 2023 by lct

[mrmalo]

5 minutes ago, lct said:

To say the least  I would set Auto Review to Off (main menu page 2) and report here.

I have auto review turned to off 🙂

[lct]

2 minutes ago, mrmalo said:

I have auto review turned to off 🙂

Including in your current user profile if any?

[ELAN]

9 hours ago, Duderino Johnson said:

The camera can’t respond  as quickly as I would like it to by taking another shot. If I press the shutter twice within a short period the 2nd photo will not be taken at the moment I press the shutter but fire as soon as the camera can get it together to do so which seems like an eternity. It is in point of fact the exact opposite of the decisive moment. Sort of feels like the camera is drunk.

I have experienced this on my M11 from the first week the camera was released.  I wrote about it a few times in this forum but most responses hinted I was imagining things or questioned my camera settings ad nauseam.  Problem was never resolved with any subsequent firmware.  My M11 recently broke and I'm using the M10-P again, and for the first time in 16 months my shutter fires every time I press the shutter button.

[mrmalo]

5 hours ago, lct said:

Including in your current user profile if any?

Not sure I follow. All my custom profiles have auto review turned to off. 

[lct]

38 minutes ago, mrmalo said:

All my custom profiles have auto review turned to off. 

Same on my M11 but i can take about 12 shots successively outdoors at wide apertures. Less so in the dark or at small apertures though. 13 shots here:

 

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by lct

[sebben]

15 hours ago, Duderino Johnson said:

It’s interesting, I’ve been reading through a bunch of comments on the various threads containing this shutter lag issue on the M11 and it seems like folks are having a hard time understanding each other. There are a few different issues at play apparently. Here’s what I experience with my brand new M11 Monochrom. 

In single shot mode:

I press the shutter and the camera takes a picture. I don’t experience any delay in response to pressing the shutter thank god. 

But wait…

I try and press the shutter again to take a photo rapidly after the first shot. Ah yes… a 2nd shot. 

What happens then you ask?? 

The camera can’t respond  as quickly as I would like it to by taking another shot. If I press the shutter twice within a short period the 2nd photo will not be taken at the moment I press the shutter but fire as soon as the camera can get it together to do so which seems like an eternity. It is in point of fact the exact opposite of the decisive moment. Sort of feels like the camera is drunk. 

Now what’s really odd is that in fast continuous mode the shutter fires much faster with much less delay between shots. It truly makes no sense and if it can’t be fixed by a firmware update or changing a setting it’s a monumental flaw in the design of the camera. It’s in the category of things that are “Riddiculous” . It borders on being criminal. 

I had the same behavior in the original SL. It drove me nuts. Especially since the "slower" M10D can take a picture every time the shutter is pressed. 

[Duderino Johnson]

11 hours ago, jaapv said:

Does the delay also happen if you shoot with a fixed shutter speed instead of in A?

Yes it does.

[Duderino Johnson]

7 hours ago, ELAN said:

I have experienced this on my M11 from the first week the camera was released.  I wrote about it a few times in this forum but most responses hinted I was imagining things or questioned my camera settings ad nauseam.  Problem was never resolved with any subsequent firmware.  My M11 recently broke and I'm using the M10-P again, and for the first time in 16 months my shutter fires every time I press the shutter button.

Wow what a nightmare. I’m sorry to hear that. I’ll be taking my M11 Monochrom to the Leica store here in Los Angeles next week to have them evaluate the issue. I have noticed that setting exposure preview to “Permenant” seems to improve the responsiveness of the shutter, but there’s still some weird behavior going on. Because I know folks will be interested, I’ve experimented by turning off any settings that would theoretically put greater demand on the processor such as turning off noise reduction, image review, and even live view. Oddly it’s worse with live view turned off.  It seems likely to me that its an issue related to the camera’s computer and internal hard drive, I.E. a buffer issue. The lack of delay between shots in fast continuous mode suggests that mechanically the camera is capable of taking pictures with a fairly short delay between shots. I believe fast continuous can do 4 frames per second, correct me if I’m wrong so I would imagine that manual trigger of the shutter should allow a similar interval. As a note,  I haven’t tried the camera yet using an SD card but I’d be shocked if an SD card could be anywhere near as fast as the internal hard drive. 

[Duderino Johnson]

10 hours ago, mrmalo said:

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. I'm surprised this issue hasn't been talked about more...

I guess you are more likely to come across these problems if you zone focus versus manually focusing each time you take a photo.

I shoot in manual and zone focus when on the street. F8/ISO400/1/2000 (single shot mode, savings photos to internal storage). If I take more than one shot in "fast" succession the camera will always miss shots.

It is something I have learned to live with and feels like the camera has the final say over the decisive moment, but it does seem so ridiculous. Sometimes, the camera responds to every shutter press. When this happens it feels like a real gift! 

I've tried using continuous low, but find it very hard to trigger single shots with it.

I’m really dissappointed to hear your experience, it’s kind of devestating really. If you’re in manual mode, the camera shouldn’t be doing any calculating, just executing the command to fire the shutter at the settings you prescribed and saving the image to the hard drive. 

[ianforber]

On 5/19/2023 at 4:17 AM, Duderino Johnson said:

It’s interesting, I’ve been reading through a bunch of comments on the various threads containing this shutter lag issue on the M11 and it seems like folks are having a hard time understanding each other. There are a few different issues at play apparently. Here’s what I experience with my brand new M11 Monochrom. 

In single shot mode:

I press the shutter and the camera takes a picture. I don’t experience any delay in response to pressing the shutter thank god. 

But wait…

I try and press the shutter again to take a photo rapidly after the first shot. Ah yes… a 2nd shot. 

What happens then you ask?? 

The camera can’t respond  as quickly as I would like it to by taking another shot. If I press the shutter twice within a short period the 2nd photo will not be taken at the moment I press the shutter but fire as soon as the camera can get it together to do so which seems like an eternity. It is in point of fact the exact opposite of the decisive moment. Sort of feels like the camera is drunk. 

Now what’s really odd is that in fast continuous mode the shutter fires much faster with much less delay between shots. It truly makes no sense and if it can’t be fixed by a firmware update or changing a setting it’s a monumental flaw in the design of the camera. It’s in the category of things that are “Riddiculous” . It borders on being criminal. 

This is my experience too. I confess I usually have the camera in Continuous Low rather than single shot. When I first got the camera I couldn’t feather the shutter release softly enough to only take one shot (like I could with my Q2). Now I can, either because of a firmwear update or (more likely) an improved technique on my part. Given that, for me there is no downside to leaving in continuous low - it’s one of the advantages of modern digital cameras

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[acalmplace]

Reporting my experience: Nothing problematic on my end, though I tried to reproduce what I read here. Very responsive when pressing in rapid sequence multiple single shots (12 shots in a row, until the buffer complained). Same with fully manual or with auto ISO, auto exposure, and both on auto. In fact, because of this, I prefer to use single shot mode to multi (low of high).

The only time when I experienced delays between sequences were when using LV.

Sorry to hear some of you are experiencing issues. I hope you find a solution!

Edited May 21, 2023 by acalmplace

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 5/19/2023 at 8:07 PM, mrmalo said:

I have auto review turned to off 🙂

It’s a bug. A well known one. And repeatedly trying to take shots can lead to a lockup. It’s an easy fix however.

Set the auto review to *shutter button pressed*. You’ll get much the same behaviour as *off* but no more lag between shots.

Gordon