M10 in 2022 and beyond.

[pgh]

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You seem like your mind is made up, but the glass is the longer game. The only real difference for most people who aren't printing large a lot of the time is that the M10-r holds highlights a bit better, but as was mentioned, shoot the M10 as ISO 200 and expose for them, and you're in a good spot.

All this is to say, I would go for an M10 and a 50mm summicron if the R means you're gonna get a voigtlander. That lens is fine but ime those are just sort of bridge lenses, while the M10 is not really a bridge camera if you can spare yourself too much time reading about marginal improvements. The M10 has been my go to for 5 years now and is only better than the day I got it. Sometimes I wish I had an R, but I can count on two hands over 5 years the times I wish I had when I was actually editing my work (after I learned to avoid ISO 100). Which is to say, the R sounds good, but the photos I've shot say I haven't really needed it - and my prints haven't had anything lacking up to 40" either. 

Edited July 15, 2022 by pgh

[scott81.rar]

47 minutes ago, Vinncent said:

It definitely intrudes in the lower corner. With the hood it’s almost to the patch. That thing is enormous.

at MFD

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At infinity 

It’s always there and you notice it. You can work around it but, like always with the APO-Lanthar, it just shouldn’t be that big and heavy for a 50f2. For me it’s more of an SL lens than an M lens. M bodies love small lenses. 

The most annoying was the weight and size. The images are always perfect so you forgive it. 

For the IQ the APO-Lanthar has been the most perfect lens so far that I’ve used. For ergonomics (at 50mm) it would the 50f1.5 Nokton II as far as VL lenses go.

If I had the M10 (for some reason I just didn’t love it on the M10R) I would buy the 50f1.5 Nokton II instead of the APO-Lanthar. 

If I had a bit more money I would TRY (because as I found out it’s not easy) to find a v4 Summicron. 

And in a perfect world everyone could afford my 50 Summicron v5. It’s the perfect IQ & Size combination (no frame line obstruction). Sometimes it looks as perfect as that APO, and sometimes it gives you a bit of vintage charm when you open it up. It’s just an amazing lens. for me it was worth the money. I’ll never sell this lens. Definitely the most perfect 50mm lens to be a primary lens for documenting life (for the Leica M and no wonder it is such an iconic lens).

So the Lanthar is for me more of a part of a kit of lenses, and I wouldn’t pick it as my main M lens that I walk around with all day. 

If the 35 Ultron is anything like my 28 Ultron it’ll perform perfectly on the M10R. You may just decide to keep it and just have your 50mm be your Leica lens. 

I am sticking with the 35mm Ultron for the time being - as you say the APO isn't practical for an everyday lens regardless the quality. As we know the best lens (or body) is the one you want to shoot with.

I'm really looking forward to getting to grips with the M - I know its cliche to say but I genuinely think it will compliment my shooting style and the path I'm taking with my photography. 

Shooting on the Sony felt too automatic literally felt like point and shoot - it was killing my creativity.

Anyway thanks for the advice it is appreciated.

 

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[scott81.rar]

12 minutes ago, pgh said:

You seem like your mind is made up, but the glass is the longer game. The only real difference for most people who aren't printing large a lot of the time is that the M10-r holds highlights a bit better, but as was mentioned, shoot the M10 as ISO 200 and expose for them, and you're in a good spot.

All this is to say, I would go for an M10 and a 50mm summicron if the R means you're gonna get a voigtlander. That lens is fine but ime those are just sort of bridge lenses, while the M10 is not really a bridge camera if you can spare yourself too much time reading about marginal improvements. The M10 has been my go to for 5 years now and is only better than the day I got it. Sometimes I wish I had an R, but I can count on two hands over 5 years the times I wish I had when I was actually editing my work (after I learned to avoid ISO 100). Which is to say, the R sounds good, but the photos I've shot say I haven't really needed it - and my prints haven't had anything lacking up to 40" either. 

I already have the Voigtlander so I don't mind using it for 6 months and then making a decision on some decent Leica glass. I think part of the reason I'm going with the R was so I don't have that "what if" feeling. Also coming from the xpro3 I would still like to feel a little upgrade on the IQ and resolution - from what I've been told from a fair few users is that the M10 IQ wise is about on par with the xpro3 and it's just the experience side that makes the difference?

 

 

[rramesh]

24MP is more than sufficient for most photographers. Software tools like ON1 Resize do a great job resizing photos significantly for those who may need a blow-up. In fact they even make iPhone photos look fantastic if you shoot them as RAW. 

[cnguyen]

To me Leica lenses have beautiful image sharpness and background rendering. Fuji xpro3 APSC - can't compete. If you like APSC buy Leica TL2/C it will blow your mind.

Sony A7 series - full frame but can't compete with Leica. 

Leica is a BAD drug don't get into it. LOL

[jakontil]

never ever say enough , everything around us in evolving, and when they start raising the standards, that's when we feel enough isnt enough

[Nick Lo]

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Being a fuji user for 10 years, I moved from Xpro3 + the a few fuji legacy primes to M10R with Leica 35 cron and 50 lux ( both the latest version) a few months ago.

X-pro3's highlight recovery is superior. You can recover much more in the some situations (>+1.5 stops). Overall IQ of the M10R is an upgrade however as you will definitely see more details, smoother transitioning and rendering.  M10-R files work very well and work better with Lightroom comparing to Fuji's X-trans sensor if that matters to you.  

If MF and RF is your thing, Fuji is no contest as it is not a true RF and it is not optimized for full MF experience. You need to use an M and an M lens ( M10 or up preferred for the body, Leica lens preferred for the lens) to understand why. It is a satisfying true RF experience with digital outputs that nothing else in the market can offer at this point. 

Otherwise, your X-pro3 will serve you very well. I loved mine before fully transitioning to Leica. 

 

[timo01]

Move also from the x-pro3 to the M10. 
That was the best decision ever! Sure the image quality isn’t nicer but it’s all about the feeling  Love my M10

[scott81.rar]

Well I’m part of the gang!!! My M10R is in transit and should be with me by tomorrow. I’m sticking with the Voigtlander for now; hopefully will get some Leica glass later in the year. 

Thanks for all the guidance it’s really been appreciated (even with my original post being ripped from Reddit!!) 

Im sure I’ll be a frequent user of the sub from now on anyway. 

[scott81.rar]

On 7/19/2022 at 9:36 AM, Nick Lo said:

Being a fuji user for 10 years, I moved from Xpro3 + the a few fuji legacy primes to M10R with Leica 35 cron and 50 lux ( both the latest version) a few months ago.

X-pro3's highlight recovery is superior. You can recover much more in the some situations (>+1.5 stops). Overall IQ of the M10R is an upgrade however as you will definitely see more details, smoother transitioning and rendering.  M10-R files work very well and work better with Lightroom comparing to Fuji's X-trans sensor if that matters to you.  

If MF and RF is your thing, Fuji is no contest as it is not a true RF and it is not optimized for full MF experience. You need to use an M and an M lens ( M10 or up preferred for the body, Leica lens preferred for the lens) to understand why. It is a satisfying true RF experience with digital outputs that nothing else in the market can offer at this point. 

Otherwise, your X-pro3 will serve you very well. I loved mine before fully transitioning to Leica. 

 

I loved mine - I got it as an interim camera to my Sony A7iv (don’t ask) I never took to the Sony after using it. 

Yes Lightroom didn’t do the Fuji raw files justice I remember doing a side by side comparison with my friend who uses capture one and there was definitely a difference in the way the software rendered the files. 

Voigtlander have just announced a new 35mm Ultron with Macro for X mount - if I hadn’t made the jump that would have definitely been something I would have like to have tried if I hadn’t made the jump across. 
 

 

[kyoto5]

On 7/1/2022 at 7:11 PM, kyoto5 said:

My daily driver at the moment is an Fuji xpro3. I currently use it with a Voigtlander Ultron 35mm F2 (M mount) over my other Fuji glass. I have started using the OVF over the EVF a lot more also. The manual and tactile way of shooting speaks to me, I’m so much more creative when shooting this way. I thoroughly enjoy the RF style of shooting. My other “kit” which has literally sat on my desk for the last three months is a Sony A7iv with a good selection of high end glass (Sony GM‘s & Sigma Art primes). I now actually have no desire https://vlc.onl to use this kit, it feels like a point and shoot camera with no character at all. When I’m going anywhere I choose the Fuji first every time and have to really force myself to use the Sony gear.

Anyway I have been admiring the M series for a long time and I feel while I can get decent money for my Sony gear - now is the time to sell it off and buy Leica. However if I was to sell the Sony gear alone I could only buy a used M10 and possibly a used Leica Lens. If I sold my Fuji gear also I could possibly stretch to an M10R and use the Voigtlander as an interim lens until I could then afford some Leica glass. I prefer the 50mm composition so my ultimate desired lens would be a Summicron 50mm.

My conundrum is; Buying an M10 in ‘22 worth investing in or should I try stretch to the M10R and start my Leica journey here instead.

I got this,...

[Ouroboros]

On 7/1/2022 at 2:41 PM, kyoto5 said:

My conundrum is; Buying an M10 in ‘22 worth investing in or should I try stretch to the M10R and start my Leica journey here instead.

M10-R, without question. Probably the last of it’s kind as the M system evolves with the M11 and beyond and as close to the original M user experience as a digital M can be, which may or may not be important, but there’s no denying the 40mp files are gorgeous.

[Archiver]

On 7/3/2022 at 4:48 AM, RayD28 said:

Lots of used Rs for sale just north of $6,000. 

Say this sentence out loud, and get back to me. 😄

[RexGig0]

I am trying to remain at the original-version M10 level of model progression, for as long as practicable, but, if starting fresh with the M system, today, knowing what I know now, I would probably opt to begin with an M10-R, if I could afford the added cost. I would, if necessary, postpone owning Leica-manufactured M lenses, in order to afford the M10-R. My favorable relationship with Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses started with SLR lenses, before I added the Leica M system. 

In reality, I did start with a Leica M lens, the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, but that was because I decided I wanted the particular lens, more than I wanted to possess any specific Leica M camera. I had seen sample images, posted on-line, and tried a pre-owned Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, at a local Leica dealer, on pre-owned and demo M9 and M 240 cameras. I decided to buy this particular Summilux, before I knew which camera I would buy. I was able to afford the lens, and a new M10, by scuttling plans to buy a Nikon “super-telephoto” lens, for which I had been budgeting, as a post-retirement self-gift. (The M10 and Summilux, combined, actually cost less than the huge telephoto lens, alone, would have cost!) I have NO regrets, for having sacrificed long-range bird/wildlife capability*, for the much more-portable Leica M system.

More typically, a shooter wants to choose the camera, when adding a system. From that point-of-view, the M10-R, as the peak M10-series color camera, makes plenty of sense.

*I had already suspected that our desire to chase birds and distant wildlife had already peaked, with the focus of our nature photography having started shifting to closer-range and macro shooting. Plus, my wife and I, both, being in our sixties, by now, toting long, “fast” telephoto lenses, very far, is NOT fun, anymore. Had I bought that 600mm f/4, or 400mm f/2.8 “dream” lens, we would probably have already sold or traded it, by now, at some significant monetary loss.

Edited August 7, 2022 by RexGig0

[Ertos]

I entered the Leica M world again in 2022 by means of a used M10. Never felt I needed more megapixels but that is a personal choice no one can make for you. From a handling perspective, the M10 is a dream. 

[Al Brown]

This topic will never get old (at least during 2022).
I now went the route backwards... got the M10-R Black Paint last July and skipped the M11 craze, but also just bought a 2022 "last ever made 😄" M10-P Reporter as a second digital body when I need the 24 megapixels sweet spot instead of 40 (yes, it does happen).

[Chimichurri]

On 7/15/2022 at 3:45 PM, scott81.rar said:

This “post” was lifted word for word from my Reddit account that I posted on the Leica Sub. But thanks for the responses, some great bits of information. I’m hopefully closing the deal on an excellent condition M10R next week. I plan to use my CV 35mm Ultron whilst I recoup some funds to make an investment into some Leica glass (50mm). Any tips on adapting to the Leica M world are appreciated. 

Good choice. M10R and summicron. 

TIPS:

- Keep your viewfinder and windows clean. Both the viewfinder and rangefinder windows. 

- READ THE MANUAL

- READ THE MANUAL AGAIN. CAREFULLY THIS TIME

- Most newbie questions can be answered by simply just READING THE MANUAL. 

- Practice keeping your horizon straight. Use the framelines as a guide 

- if you read the manual you know that when shooting through the rangefinder you’re basically in center weighted metering all the time regardless of the setting in the camera. Other metering modes are for shooting in LV. If you practice a lot you’ll be able to predict the exposure better.

Half pressing on the subject and then recomposing is a good way to get good exposure. 

- in your pocket carry a cleaning cloth, a backup SD card and a spare battery all the time. 

[MikeMyers]

I just found this thread.  Interesting.  I bought my M10 a few years ago, and even though I was tempted, I decided not to upgrade.  For my use, I prefer 24 megapixels.  40 would probably be OK, but I have no need for 60.  I guess that depends on what one does with the images afterwards.  I don't see any gain from buying a "-R" camera, and while I like the USB-C connector on the 11, I don't see it doing anything for me.  Besides, I want brass, and I want black, and that's not yet a choice.

Important to remember, it's the photographer who makes the picture, not the camera.  As I see it, in the right hands, the M10 is as good as it gets.

Lenses - I've been reading more and more, and while Leica lenses are at the top, Voigtlander lenses are pretty darn close.  I've now bought several, and I'm extremely pleased.  Every time I read reviews, and check out specifications, I come away feeling the the Voigtlander lenses are more than good enough for me.

On 10/26/2022 at 12:38 PM, Chimichurri said:

- READ THE MANUAL

Great advice; practice with all the settings until you know and understand them.  Go to "Red Dot Forums" and watch the two Q&A video sessions on the M10.

I gave up on Adobe long ago, and switched from Lightroom to DxO PhotoLab.  I love the way it treats M10 images.  

Also, read this link, which may help convince you that YOU are the important part of photography, not the camera:

https://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/notcamera.htm

It's too bad that Leica still doesn't offer the M10.  For people on a budget, the M10 might be more affordable.  

[Raid Amin]

Buy the camera that you want to. 

I got an M10 after the M9 (after the M8) and after I got an M6 (after an M3). 

The new Voigtlaender lenses are excellent, by the way.  The 50/2 APO and 50/1.0 are wonderful lenses.

I use them on my M10. What is there not to like!

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