M11 serial numbers and production date

[chasdfg]

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Curious question here. I just received my M11 this week and it has a serial number of 5590xxxx. Production date is early June 2022, so it is quite a baby. I was watching some youtube videos and looking at some pics on the web and noticed some M11s with serial numbers supposedly later than mine, but the videos and pics were from some time ago. This spurred me to trawl through some used camera sale ads, and I spotted some M11s with later serial numbers than mine being sold weeks/months ago. I thought this was strange because I'd have expected the serial numbers and production dates to be tied/in sync. I can understand for different camera models/lens models, an "earlier" serial number could be tied to a later produced lens, as the numbers are allocated to each batch and the batches may not be produced in serial number sequence (probably produced depending on demand and parts). But for the same camera model?

That said, I think its plausible that even the same camera model can have different batches, depending on colour as well as product number (product number for the cameras for ROW, Japan and some parts of Asia), given maybe WiFi parts for different regions (or some other electrical components) may vary depending on region. Alternatively, my camera is a refurb/ex-demo, but I understand that Leica marks the boxes of the ex-demo sets (indicating, IIRC, QM2 or something and that it was an ex-demo). I had an M240 which was ex-demo, and I don't recall the production date on the box or the production date and serial number on the signed certificate to have been "updated" to a fresh date out of factory after it went back for a check/refurb. My M11 box has no indication it is an ex-demo set too.

Would love to hear what others think. And yes, the camera is a tool, I should be out shooting...I'll get more into taking pics this weekend (side point, annoyingly, there is a bit of dust in the viewfinder in a supposedly brand new camera).

Edited July 1, 2022 by chasdfg

[LocalHero1953]

Historically, Leica issues serial numbers in batches to the production side, which were not necessarily used in sequence. Look at the Leica Wiki attached to this forum and you will see that serial numbers batches can span several years. They were a guide to the year, but not the sequence of manufacture. 

I don't know if that is the same practice now, which would explain your number.

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[UliWer]

Have you got your M11 with the original packaging? If so, you should find a silvery sticker on the package with a bar code and a date on it. I am not sure whether this date stands for the date of production and I rather think it is added when the camera is fully packed. Though this date of packaging will be perhaps a few days after finishing the production or even on the same day. Leica Camera doesn't store their products on the shelves anymore.

[pedaes]

2 hours ago, chasdfg said:

serial number of 5590xxxx.

I think whoever builds the camera just gets a hot shoe with the number, and they do not follow a strict numeric order.

[Photoworks]

it is a fun observation. 

[lct]

5 hours ago, chasdfg said:

Production date is early June 2022

It is the date printed on a sticker of the test certificate you found in the camera box an/or on the box itself, i suppose. It means that your camera has been tested in June 2022 by Leica and it is considered the manufacturing date officially whatever the serial number may be. BTW Leica doesn't issue warranty cards anymore so better keep your invoice or another evidence of the purchase in a safe place since the date of the purchase is only relevant in matter of statutory as well as product warranty. Don't forget to register the camera on the Leica website as the product warranty is only available online nowadays. Happy snaps .

 

 

[Al Brown]

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I wonder why Leica stopped its meticulous serial number record keeping and public sharing somewhere after 2015... Although not perfect, the system was (and still is) of enormous help for camera and lens dating and collecting, determining the models, versions etc.
 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Al Brown

[UliWer]

They have always been very reluctant to disclose any serial numbers of their recent production. They even worked on a cryptic numbering system which would have made it impossible to get any clues from the number to the production date - though it proved to be too complicated. So you just have to wait perhaps seven or ten years until you get information when batches with certain numbers were built - though this will never be exact as long as you don't have the stickers with serial numbers and date. 

[chasdfg]

Hi all, thanks for the responses. I wrongly referred to the date on the outer grey box and on the test certificate as the production date, but yes, it should be the packaging date. 

It makes sense that through 1) different batches for the same camera model (one different batch for each product number), plus  2) whoever building the camera getting a tray/box of hotshoes with serial numbers for that batch (and numbering does not necessarily run in sequence when assembling that batch as one would likely pick hotshoes from a tray/box without following the numbering in sequence, unless the numbers are laid out in sequence) = the most likely answer to my query.

I vaguely recall seeing a video of the camera assembly process in a Leica factory which featured a box/tray of hotshoes when assembling the camera. Or maybe its my mind creating a false memory.

[lct]

As suggested above, only the date mentioned on the test certificate is considered the manufacturing date officially. It is printed on a sticker that you should find on the box as well. 

[chasdfg]

Just now, lct said:

As suggested above, only the date mentioned on the test certificate is considered the manufacturing date officially. It is printed on a sticker that you should find on the box as well. 

Yup I got this. In any case whether manufacturing date (which I called production date) or packaging date, that is the only date we have which indicates the "actual" age of a Leica camera or lens, as the purchase date on an invoice could be weeks or months after the camera or lens was ready for sale from the factory (though the invoice date is the important one for warranty purposes). I suppose this manufacture date is useful to know for new old stock and less useful for something like an M11.

I take the date on the certificate and outer box to be like a birth certificate issuance date, which may or may not be the date you were born (I have no example of what would be analogous to an invoice date in regard to humans).

[Luis Rousset]

HELP

I can`t find the serial number

Camera M 11.  20200

[jaapv]

On the hot shoe.  

[Steve B]

My M11 was made in October 2022, according to the sticker on the box.

[jdlaing]

3 hours ago, Steve B said:

My M11 was made in October 2022, according to the sticker on the box.

That’s the date it was boxed for release and not necessarily the production date.

[Steve B]

14 hours ago, jdlaing said:

That’s the date it was boxed for release and not necessarily the production date.

But it is very recent, as opposed to an M11 that was made and boxed months ago. That's all I have to go on.

[LBJ2]

On 1/11/2023 at 8:16 PM, jdlaing said:

That’s the date it was boxed for release and not necessarily the production date.

How is this known? Or just forum speculation ? 

[DenverSteve]

On 1/16/2023 at 4:52 PM, jqian6 said:

Dealer I am supposed to speak to next week showed me a picture of that 'said' label outside of the grey box. It shows serial number 567xxxx in Sept 2022. ....Should I consider this September 2022 "made" product staled or fresh?

I would consider it new. 

[Seneca]

Purchased my M11 in June 2022. Production sticker on the box is dated May 2022.

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[DAERASO]

#569**** labeled late Nov 2022