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King of Bookeh or something else ?


vonrozen

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Hello everyone

an elderly photographer would like to sell the lens to me claiming that this is the sought after King of Bookeh . Do you think it is the king  or just a poor relative ?

all advice would be greatly appreciated

 

Kind Regards

Alexander ( Paris)

 

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1 hour ago, vonrozen said:

 

Hello everyone

an elderly photographer would like to sell the lens to me claiming that this is the sought after King of Bookeh . Do you think it is the king  or just a poor relative ?

all advice would be greatly appreciated

 

Kind Regards

Alexander ( Paris)

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Hi

 

This seems very much like it 😉 I think the half-way cut out aperture ring is very recognizable... This lens was my first Leica lens back in the nineties... and still just love it! Often my go-to lens which can do pretty much everything very nicely.

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Yes, this is a Summicron f2/35mm version 4, which is sometimes referred to as the king of bokeh. With this particular sample, the glass seems to be good, but there is some wear on the aperture ring, so don't pay too much for that lens, it certainly is not in mint condition (a good user lens though).

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The name is just something somebody on the internet said once. If you are a looking for a classic looking 35mm lens with pleasing bokeh, it certainly fits the bill, but I don't think there is anything particularly magical about it, other than how that moniker drives up the prices.

Basically, my advice would be that if the price is good and you want a classic rendering, it is an appealing lens. If the price is high, and if you are wondering whether it will give you magical results because of the name, I would say no, and save your money. If you are shooting digital and want a lens that is sharp wide open without aberrations etc, then you will need to look for an ASPH version or one of the more recent Voigtlander or Zeiss models.

Edited by Stuart Richardson
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vor 21 Minuten schrieb Stuart Richardson:

The name is just something somebody on the internet said once. If you are a looking for a classic looking 35mm lens with pleasing bokeh, it certainly fits the bill, but I don't think there is anything particularly magical about it, other than how that moniker drives up the prices.

Basically, my advice would be that if the price is good and you want a classic rendering, it is an appealing lens. If the price is high, and if you are wondering whether it will give you magical results because of the name, I would say no, and save your money. If you are shooting digital and want a lens that is sharp wide open without aberrations etc, then you will need to look for an ASPH version or one of the more recent Voigtlander or Zeiss models.

… excellent advice👍!

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Also be carefull with this version 4 lens made in Canada. The Canadian ones have some plastic parts inside which can break. They did that to reduce manufacturing cost. I don’t know wether all Canadian batches are made this way. The made in Germany ones are all totally metal. If you search a bit in this forum you will find more topics about this problem. Succes.

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Yes that seems to be the one and in good condition too. I’d recommend it because modern lenses from all manufacturers seem to render too alike these days but the Summicron IV doesn’t, it has its own character, and is not streamlined to just bokeh, which is a subjective thing anyway. It is a Leitz lens, so in good condition it will not will be crap; it will be good. But you should spend time getting to know what it does well and what it doesn’t do well (which is all part of the fun) and you will be rewarded. 

 

Two things though:

 

  1. Save time by not referring to it as the “King of Bokeh” as that makes people for some reason I can’t fathom get onto their keyboards straight away; it saves time having to deal with all these responses; and
  2. Try not to be distracted by alternative recommendations and change of subject. Yes there are loads of other available lenses of the same age, size, aperture etc. But we’re talking about this particular lens so give it a try, if renders to your satisfaction, buy it. My own bias is towards small lenses that are good quality and are fun to use wide open where necessary and this lens is applicable to all that. 
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2 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

The name is just something somebody on the internet said once.

Actually, in a caption in a Photo Techniques magazine article in 1997.  [The same magazine he* first used the spelling bokeh,  from the Japanese boke, to aid in pronunciation.] He has since retracted, and regretted, his description of the Summicron v.4 bokeh, having not used the lens at widest apertures and close distances at the time.

* Mike Johnston, now at TOP

Jeff

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Thank you so very much for this wealth of informative, wise and very helpful replies from all of you. I really appreciate the quality of it. I ll try to drive down the price to 1.400 € or less ...

revision costs in Paris are rather high  !

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Whatever Mr Johnston or other reviewers may think, the Summicron 35/2 v4 is certainly not the king of bokeh at f/2, it is rather busy there, more so than my favorite Summicron 35/2 asph v1. Just an example here (link). At f/2.8 and on, the v4's OoF is more pleasing though and it is more compact than later asph versions. BTW the good condition of the white paint could indicate that the lens has been recently CLA'd so 1,400 EUR sounds reasonable from this view point. I would check carefully if the glass is clean though.

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11 hours ago, Ray Vonn said:

Yes that seems to be the one and in good condition too. I’d recommend it because modern lenses from all manufacturers seem to render too alike these days but the Summicron IV doesn’t, it has its own character, and is not streamlined to just bokeh, which is a subjective thing anyway. It is a Leitz lens, so in good condition it will not will be crap; it will be good. But you should spend time getting to know what it does well and what it doesn’t do well (which is all part of the fun) and you will be rewarded. 

 

Two things though:

 

  1. Save time by not referring to it as the “King of Bokeh” as that makes people for some reason I can’t fathom get onto their keyboards straight away; it saves time having to deal with all these responses; and
  2. Try not to be distracted by alternative recommendations and change of subject. Yes there are loads of other available lenses of the same age, size, aperture etc. But we’re talking about this particular lens so give it a try, if renders to your satisfaction, buy it. My own bias is towards small lenses that are good quality and are fun to use wide open where necessary and this lens is applicable to all that. 

Most prescient post ever.

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6 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

He agrees.. as noted above.

Nobody's perfect :D. Just kidding but my opinion was made in the 80's with K25 trannies and a Pradovit A. I don't know if Mr. Johnston was born yet, but he certainly never heard of me, so I have no problem giving him credit for this discovery or rediscovery if any ;).

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15 minutes ago, lct said:

Nobody's perfect :D. Just kidding but my opinion was made in the 80's with K25 trannies and a Pradovit A. I don't know if Mr. Johnston was born yet, but he certainly never heard of me, so I have no problem giving him credit for this discovery or rediscovery if any ;).

He wrote today that he’s almost 65.5. Still young-ish. He regrettably started the king of bokeh term in 1997, only to learn better sometime later. You were way ahead.

https://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2022/06/this-time-of-life.html

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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Yes! It's a v4. You can consider it a one-lens to go. Performance @4.0 and smaller are very very high and the OOF is still peculiar. At larger apertures you can see corners-darkening and a fall of overall crispness (compared to f4 or f5.6) but this is the soul of this lens; you can have either dreamy, dark, old-cinematic-like pictures or classic stop down shots.

You have to consider that it has severe field curvature and it always has this "fingerprint" (also with small apertures). If you like perfect lanscape pictures you have to close to f8-f11.

This is more a reportage lens, scene-detail in phocus and very nice peculiar OOF which maintains recognizable scene details (this is very important in reportage because you tell a story with the main subject and its surround).

 

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That definitely is a Type IV Summicron, and is my very favorite lens.  I suggest you discount the KoB and plastic internals comments, which are both overly-amplified in the Internet forums.  It's a great lens, especially for film.

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