B&W development basics

[250swb]

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19 hours ago, pridbor said:

I will exhaust my on hand Df96 developer first and in the meantime try to find the simplest set of chemicals I can get away with, maybe even stay with the Df96?

 

Thanks all,

Preben

Unless you try other developers you won't know if they could be better than Df96. But to try other developers I think you have to embrace the idea that developing a film 'better' is a craft and not the bish-bash-bosh approach of monobaths or stand development.

So there are thousands of ways to do better than Df96, the 'wonders' of stand development, or any other to good to be true technique, but it only happens if you make higher expectations for yourself. One way you could perhaps start is by using a fine grained film and choose a developer that will give you the finest grain with that film, you then begin with a datum point and can see if you like fine grain and detail and a full tonal range. Or choose a grainy film and choose a developer to give you more grain and contrast, and again you end up with a datum point but at the other end of the scale. You are trying to find what your eye and brain like in the image produced by different film and developer combinations and between very fine grain and big grain is where most film and developer combos live. When you find you have control over these variables you can enjoy a set regime or enjoy experimenting, but you should want to do it, otherwise Df96 is good enough. 

[Doug A]

Alternatively, you can search on Flickr for a film and a developer to get a rough idea of what others have been able to do with that combination. 

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[RayD28]

On 6/29/2022 at 2:39 AM, LocalHero1953 said:

I use HC110 with no issues, 18ml made up to 575ml is Solution B, and I use it as a one-shot developer for two rolls of film in a Paterson 2-reel tank.

A stop bath is only an acid bath to counteract the alkaline developer and stop it working. A traditional stop bath is acetic acid. To avoid the vinegary smell I use citric acid, bought in a 500g pack from my local cleaning materials store for next to nothing. One teaspoon of the white granules dissolved in 575ml water does the job. It is so cheap I just use it as a one shot.

As others have said, a normal rapid fixer is fine. I use Fomafix which comes in 500ml bottles and mixes at 1+5, so I can get five batches of 600ml from one bottle. Ilford Rapid Fixer has to be mixed at 1+4, which is less convenient. I reuse the fixer, but test it before use.

This is probably a dumb question, but how do you test the fixer?  

[Ko.Fe.]

23 minutes ago, RayD28 said:

This is probably a dumb question, but how do you test the fixer?  

Have you tried to google it? By google search, not Bing

Basically, you put undeveloped film strip into it and watch emulsion to disappear.  Multiply time of it happened by two and it is your fixing time. If it is too long - new fixer mix.

 

[schmidtbaer]

One easy way is the usage of potassium iodide (5% solution).

Pour 1ml of the fixer to be tested into a test glass. Then add one drop of the potassium iodide solution. If the mix remains clear, then the fixer is still good to go.

If the fixer is done then you will observe some milk-like silver iodide separation.

You can find some example photos of the test here:

http://www.stefanheymann.de/foto/fixierbadtest.htm

[Pyrogallol]

1 hour ago, RayD28 said:

This is probably a dumb question, but how do you test the fixer?  

I just keep all my odd pieces of film leader and use them to test my print fixer.

[LocalHero1953]

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5 hours ago, RayD28 said:

This is probably a dumb question, but how do you test the fixer?  

As others have said, with the leader cut off the film before loading it into the tank. I just fold the end over and hang it over the edge of the jug holding my fixer. If it clears well within the time I allow for fixing, it is still OK.

[Aryel]

On 6/29/2022 at 9:16 PM, Doug A said:

Using only distilled water, i.e., no tap water, and gently wiping the hanging negatives with one downward pass of a Kimwipe tissue I have to streaks, no water spots, and no scratches. 

Just want to say thank you: I gave the Kimwipe tissues a try and it works really well. Thanks a lot for sharing. 

[Fotoklaus]

Am 16.7.2022 um 16:31 schrieb Ko.Fe.:

Have you tried to google it? By google search, not Bing

Basically, you put undeveloped film strip into it and watch emulsion to disappear.  Multiply time of it happened by two and it is your fixing time. If it is too long - new fixer mix.

 

Beside testing I just use one Liter of Fixer (1+4) for about 10 films, then I use a new liter of dilution. The magenta colur of the anti- halation layer ( TMAX, Delta-Films) will

dissapear completely with using fresh fixer. The first two fillngs with water after fixing are real colourful. With often used fixer the magenta colur is noticeable on the negs.

Otherwise the base layer comes out clear or in a light grey tone. If the fixer is rally exhausted, a foggy, milky layer will be left on the negs.

But if this happens you can use fresh fixer and do the process again.

[Ko.Fe.]

3 hours ago, Fotoklaus said:

Beside testing I just use one Liter of Fixer (1+4) for about 10 films, then I use a new liter of dilution. The magenta colur of the anti- halation layer ( TMAX, Delta-Films) will

dissapear completely with using fresh fixer. The first two fillngs with water after fixing are real colourful. With often used fixer the magenta colur is noticeable on the negs.

Otherwise the base layer comes out clear or in a light grey tone. If the fixer is rally exhausted, a foggy, milky layer will be left on the negs.

But if this happens you can use fresh fixer and do the process again.

 

Only 10 films in 1+4 dilution is unnecessary waste. Also magenta color on negs doesn't affect anything. Not scans, nor DR prints.  I don't even have issues with ECN2 film in BW developer fixer. 

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[Fotoklaus]

I just said that with fresh fixer the magenta colour is completely washed out. So make your conclusions out of that.

[250swb]

On 7/19/2022 at 12:51 PM, Fotoklaus said:

The magenta colur of the anti- halation layer ( TMAX, Delta-Films) will

dissapear completely with using fresh fixer. The first two fillngs with water after fixing are real colourful.

If you still have colour in the wash water after fixing you have a problem. The anti-halation colouring should be flushed out with the developer, not the stop bath, not the fixer, and certainly not by the time it gets to the wash water. Unless you are confusing the natural colour and density of the film base with your outcome, different films have different densities of the film base, Ilford films tend to have a higher density base than Kodak for example, and no amount of fixing can change it.

 

 

 

[Fotoklaus]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb 250swb:

If you still have colour in the wash water after fixing you have a problem. The anti-halation colouring should be flushed out with the developer, not the stop bath, not the fixer, and certainly not by the time it gets to the wash water. Unless you are confusing the natural colour and density of the film base with your outcome, different films have different densities of the film base, Ilford films tend to have a higher density base than Kodak for example, and no amount of fixing can change it.

 

 

 

It will not, depending on the film. Developed hundreds of films, tested everything extensively. Tmx 400, my standard, will have a magenta touch if the fixer is exhausted. It comes out in a light grey with fresh fixer. A part of the anti- halation layer is washed out by the developer, that´s right. But not everything.

here is what Kodak writes in the TMX400 Datasheet:

"Your fixer will be exhausted more rapidly with this film
than with other films. If your negatives show a magenta
(pink) stain after fixing, your fixer may be near exhaustion,
or you may not have used a long enough time."

Source: https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/default/files/files/products/f4043_tmax_400.pdf

APX100 (original Agfa germany) is behaving different. There is a massive wash out of the A-H- Layer after developing and nothing is left after fixing.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Fotoklaus

[250swb]

 

On 7/19/2022 at 12:51 PM, Fotoklaus said:

 The first two fillngs with water after fixing are real colourful.

You said you still have some of the anti-halation layer in the film during the wash stage. That is the problem I was referring to. 

The anti halation layer can be washed out of film with a pre-soak, but even without a pre-soak it should not be coming out of the film during the wash, by then the film should be fully cleared and you are washing fixer out of the emulsion.

 

19 hours ago, Fotoklaus said:

 Developed hundreds of films, tested everything extensively. TMX 400, my standard, will have a magenta touch if the fixer is exhausted.

"Your fixer will be exhausted more rapidly with this film
than with other films. If your negatives show a magenta
(pink) stain after fixing, your fixer may be near exhaustion,
or you may not have used a long enough time."

 

You are misunderstanding what the Kodak datasheet is saying, if you use exhausted fixer the film will indeed come out pink, but this is unfixed emulsion you are looking at, not the anti halation dye. If you have much experience and have developed hundreds of films can I ask how you still manage to use exhausted fixer?

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by 250swb

[Fotoklaus]

I don´t, that´s why my negs don´t have a pink stain :-)

[Ornello]

5 hours ago, Fotoklaus said:

I don´t, that´s why my negs don´t have a pink stain 🙂

Perma-Wash is great for clearing the dye.