B&W development basics

[pridbor]

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I see many posts in this forum, whee people like I has gone back to developing their own films and I think mostly B&W, although it doesn't apply to my topic.

I have been using the "Cinestill Df96" a number of times and that is really easy, and despite the 2 months expiration time I'm still using a bottle I bought more than a year ago, and it still seems to do the job.  I now have used it to develop 7 films and it still seems to work, I may however not be quite as critical of my results as you gents, but so far I'm happy 🙂

 

But I was wondering if I would improve my results by using what a lot of you gents, who seem to do this more frequently than I, e.g., are using like the HC110 developer.  

If I went that way, and I have read a lot of posts discussing for and against a lot of these products, but if I e.g. went with the HC110 what would/could/should I use as a Stop, and fix products?

Am I also correct in assuming that the HC110 is a concentrate and once mixed is only used to develop one film/batch?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Preben

 

[105012]

I’ve not used df96 so can’t make any comparison between it and hc110. I use hc110 with a water stop bath and Ilford Rapid Fixer, always get great results through my Jobo. Hc110 is a concentrate and I just mix up what I need each time, I never recycle the diluted/used fluid. I like hc110 (or Ilford HC) because it lasts forever and is very economical. I see some articles on Pyro 510 around, might give that a try someday? 

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[Aryel]

On 6/27/2022 at 9:42 AM, pridbor said:

But I was wondering if I would improve my results by using what a lot of you gents, who seem to do this more frequently than I, e.g., are using like the HC110 developer.  

If I went that way, and I have read a lot of posts discussing for and against a lot of these products, but if I e.g. went with the HC110 what would/could/should I use as a Stop, and fix products?

I haven’t tried any of these two sorry. Generally speaking, I wouldn’t expect improvements, I’d expect a different look. Best is to search for samples image of the film stock/developer combination you are interested to try and decide if you like this look.  I find it is always better to consider the film stock/developer combination before deciding what to try.

in regards to stop bath, it is not mandatory, you can also use water. I use ilford stop and ilford rapid fixer but I think you can go with any brand available in your area. Fixer is not one shot, you can typically re-use. 

Hope this helps 😊

[pridbor]

I'm trying to get slowly into doing my own development of film again, while at the same time trying to keep the amount of "stuff" (chemicals) to a minimum.

The df96 claims that it's good for 8 films and good for 2 months so that means that I will have to replenish "frequently" and that's a hassle!  Although I believe that they are very conservative.

So, I was thinking that if I got a concentrate Developer and fixer and do with water for stop and rinse then I would have a nice beginner setup and then work from there if not happy.

 

Thanks, both, very helpful!

 

Preben

[Mr.Prime]

I haven’t tried a liquid concentrate developer, only D-76. But once mixed to stock dilution and stored in little brown bottles it’s so easy to use that I doubt I’d be happy fiddling around and cleaning syringes each time. Perhaps I’m over thinking it.

[madNbad]

There are users of DF96 who have regularly processed seventeen or eighteen rolls with it by following the directions to increase development time for each new roll processed. DF96 is not as sensitive to temperature as many other developers and works well with water that is in the mid 70 degrees Fahrenheit and even higher. I haven't used it myself but it may be worth sticking with for a while.

If you do decide to make the switch to HC-110, which I use, here are a few hints: 

Purchase four 250ML brown glass bottles, you can get them through Photofomulary  https://stores.photoformulary.com . Then from a local drug store, ask the pharmacist for four 10ML oral syringes. After splitting the one liter bottle of HC-110 into the four bottles, the syringes come with stoppers for the bottle so you can measure out the exact amount of developer. When you squirt the developer into the beaker of water, draw water into the syringe several times. This will mix the developer and do most of cleaning the syringe. Normally when I'm finished, I run warm water through the syringe and rarely a brush. Storing it in smaller bottles makes it easier to work with and keeps air from degrading the developer.

Buy a stop bath. They're cheap, work fast and save water.

Get a rapid fixer, film is fixed in about five minutes.

Learn the Ilford water saving wash.

Hope you stay with the DF96, if not, there is plenty of information both here and many other places.

 

[Huss]

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There's a long thread on it on photrio.com

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/cinestill-df96-monobath.174699/page-30#post-2564042

 

I have shot a couple of hundred of rolls of film with it, and have been very happy.

[LocalHero1953]

On 6/27/2022 at 2:42 AM, pridbor said:

I see many posts in this forum, whee people like I has gone back to developing their own films and I think mostly B&W, although it doesn't apply to my topic.

I have been using the "Cinestill Df96" a number of times and that is really easy, and despite the 2 months expiration time I'm still using a bottle I bought more than a year ago, and it still seems to do the job.  I now have used it to develop 7 films and it still seems to work, I may however not be quite as critical of my results as you gents, but so far I'm happy 🙂

 

But I was wondering if I would improve my results by using what a lot of you gents, who seem to do this more frequently than I, e.g., are using like the HC110 developer.  

If I went that way, and I have read a lot of posts discussing for and against a lot of these products, but if I e.g. went with the HC110 what would/could/should I use as a Stop, and fix products?

Am I also correct in assuming that the HC110 is a concentrate and once mixed is only used to develop one film/batch?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Preben

 

I use HC110 with no issues, 18ml made up to 575ml is Solution B, and I use it as a one-shot developer for two rolls of film in a Paterson 2-reel tank.

A stop bath is only an acid bath to counteract the alkaline developer and stop it working. A traditional stop bath is acetic acid. To avoid the vinegary smell I use citric acid, bought in a 500g pack from my local cleaning materials store for next to nothing. One teaspoon of the white granules dissolved in 575ml water does the job. It is so cheap I just use it as a one shot.

As others have said, a normal rapid fixer is fine. I use Fomafix which comes in 500ml bottles and mixes at 1+5, so I can get five batches of 600ml from one bottle. Ilford Rapid Fixer has to be mixed at 1+4, which is less convenient. I reuse the fixer, but test it before use.

Edited June 29, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[Fotoklaus]

I can give you just the advice to use well known chemicals in a well known matter. Work properly. Look at times and temperatures.

Fixing/developing with one product is not good for consistency or achival quality. This kind of prodct was used in press fotografy back then, when minutes

counted and the negs where not imprtant (e.g. at the horse races for the photo-finish)

Buy a pack of D-76 or ID 11 (or HC-110, what you like best) a bottle of Ilford/ Kodak Rapid fixer and go on.

The fixing dilution can be used for many films, the developer is used one time only.

So take a HP5/ FP4/ TRI-X/ Tmax/Delta- Film, and develop it properly in D76/ ID-11/ HC-110 and you will be astonished of the quality you could get.

I have tested a lot over the past 20 Years and my conculsion is, that there are now wonder chemicals out there, but well known and well tested products

which will work better most of the time.

[Doug A]

My materials on the shelf for developing b&w film are liquid developer, generic rapid fixer working solution, and distilled water. 

I have used a variety of liquid developers with this setup. I am currently using Adox FX-39 which works well with both cubic grain and tabular grain films. I use it diluted 1:9. 

Stop bath is necessary for developing prints. For b&w negatives it is not necessary. Plain water is fine. 

Anything labeled rapid developer from a reputable source will work fine. No need to spend extra for the name brand stuff.  

I develop my 35mm b&w film in a 250ml stainless tank. I dilute both my developer and fixer with distilled water and use distilled water for all three changes of wash water using the Ilford method. Total distilled water used for one roll of film is 1.5 liters.

Using only distilled water, i.e., no tap water, and gently wiping the hanging negatives with one downward pass of a Kimwipe tissue I have to streaks, no water spots, and no scratches. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by Doug A

[JoshuaRothman]

Like you, I started out with D96 and was happy with the results. But I saw a significant jump in quality when I moved to DD-X, Ilfostop, and Ilford Rapid Fixer. Maybe "quality" is the wrong word, as the D96 looked quite cool—but it wasn't the look I was going for. I'm much happier now.

I am lazy and use the same stand-development recipe for all my B&W film (usually FP4):

- Combine 25ml DD-X with 975ml of cool water.

- Pour into tank, agitate for 30 seconds, let sit for 22 minutes.

- Invert tank twice, knock it on the counter to dislodge bubbles, let it sit for 22 more minutes.

- Pour out developer (the chemicals have now been exhausted).

- Pour in stop bath (mixed according to proportions on the bottle), agitate for 30 seconds to 1 minute, return to storage container.

- Pour in fixer, agitate for 30 seconds, then agitate for a few seconds every thirty seconds for five more minutes. Return to storage container.

- Pour in a few drops of Photo-flo then fill tank with cool water, agitate for 30 seconds, let sit for another 30, pour out.

This is very simple and takes just a few minutes worth of attention. I have a small cardboard box with all the bottles in it. I've found it worth it over D96. Obviously there are many other development recipes, each different!

[madNbad]

1 hour ago, Doug A said:

My materials on the shelf for developing b&w film are liquid developer, generic rapid fixer working solution, and distilled water. 

I have used a variety of liquid developers with this setup. I am currently using Adox FX-39 which works well with both cubic grain and tabular grain films. I use it diluted 1:9. 

Stop bath is necessary for developing prints. For b&w negatives it is not necessary. Plain water is fine. 

Anything labeled rapid developer from a reputable source will work fine. No need to spend extra for the name brand stuff.  

I develop my 35mm b&w film in a 250ml stainless tank. I dilute both my developer and fixer with distilled water and use distilled water for all three changes of wash water using the Ilford method. Total distilled water used for one roll of film is 1.5 liters.

Using only distilled water, i.e., no tap water, and gently wiping the hanging negatives with one downward pass of a Kimwipe tissue I have to streaks, no water spots, and no scratches. 

Thanks for the Kimwipe suggestion. My process is similar to what you are doing except for using tap water to wash. The water in Portland is fairly soft so mineral marks aren’t a problem but I’ve gone back and forth between using my fingers or a squeegee after hanging the film to dry. 

[Doug A]

3 minutes ago, madNbad said:

Thanks for the Kimwipe suggestion. My process is similar to what you are doing except for using tap water to wash. The water in Portland is fairly soft so mineral marks aren’t a problem but I’ve gone back and forth between using my fingers or a squeegee after hanging the film to dry. 

I used my first and second fingers as a squeegee for many years with no issues. But when the Kimwipes were mentioned somewhere online I thought it might be worth giving them a try. I have had no issues using them and the negatives are noticeably dryer than with my fingers, which helps with dust accumulation as they finish drying. 

[Tom R]

Certainly, you will get a lot of useful information on this thread. You might try navigating to https://www.learnfilm.photography for a more "comprehensive" treatment of this topic.

I've processed B&W films intermittently since the 1970's, and I have also recently tried DF96 (the cinestill product). Both approaches can yield excellent results (technically) but it's ultimately up to you to determine what "success" looks like for you and your work.

For example, HC-110 (which has been reformulated) has been thoroughly explored and explained by countless on-line sources ... this means that you'll have more "options," such as processing the same film at different speeds, or with different dilutions. etc. If you're not careful, you can spend a lot of time messing with that instead of getting on with your own work. That said, if you had to have only ONE developer, that's likely it. Others may say Rodinal instead. That has its own benefits and drawbacks.

Just keep in mind why you're making pictures in the first place. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Tom R said:

You might try navigating to https://www.learnfilm.photography for a more "comprehensive" treatment of this topic.

Thanks for posting the link. Just embarking on my rediscovery of film photography. 

[pridbor]

I will exhaust my on hand Df96 developer first and in the meantime try to find the simplest set of chemicals I can get away with, maybe even stay with the Df96?

 

Thanks all,

Preben

[Aryel]

11 hours ago, Doug A said:

I used my first and second fingers as a squeegee for many years with no issues. But when the Kimwipes were mentioned somewhere online I thought it might be worth giving them a try. I have had no issues using them and the negatives are noticeably dryer than with my fingers, which helps with dust accumulation as they finish drying. 

Thanks a lot for sharing! I will give it a try. Was using my fingers so far. 
 

11 hours ago, JoshuaRothman said:

I am lazy and use the same stand-development recipe for all my B&W film (usually FP4)

I use and like dd-x a lot but never tried stand development. If possible, could you share some images? How does it compare to following the normal inversion? 

[Aryel]

7 hours ago, pridbor said:

I will exhaust my on hand Df96 developer first and in the meantime try to find the simplest set of chemicals I can get away with, maybe even stay with the Df96?

 

Thanks all,

Preben

Sounds wise, if you like the look there is no real reason to change I my opinion. In terms of difficulty, the main stream ones are all pretty much the same. Even mixing powder is easy and once mixed it is the same as the liquid ones. 

[Tom R]

7 hours ago, Aryel said:

Sounds wise, if you like the look there is no real reason to change I my opinion. In terms of difficulty, the main stream ones are all pretty much the same. Even mixing powder is easy and once mixed it is the same as the liquid ones. 

In addition to the remarks above, powder developers have a (virtually) unlimited shelf-life, unlike liquid developers that have definite limits. Assuming that the powder developers are kept dry and in their original packages, the "clock starts ticking" only after they have been mixed. For instance, the OP is using DF96, which is available in both a prepared liquid form or as a powder. The liquid product, if I recall correctly, has a shelf life of about two months once opened ... irrespective of the number of rolls processed (i assume that the developer's capacity is the same in either case).

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[Fotoklaus]

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Processing-your-first-black-and-white-film.pdf